And Ken, what's MISSING out of all of this is your "satyrday sabbath" where is it mentioned in these texts? Please don't IGNORE this as evidence that it's not here.
ImAHebrew: please make us a calendar with texts of scriptures that identify your Saturday Sabbath? And please we want the scriptures that identifies and references the Saturdays, and not a calendar made up of your own modern day feasts with the Saturdays added with it as ye have done.
Eliyahu: I was searching google and found this website that I think agrees with the calendar that you gave above of the 14th--22nd day of the first month, and it seems to be saying similar as you. www.lunarsabbath.info/id9.html
Well Ken, here is exactly what I mean in calendar format below of the 14th day through to the 22nd day of the first lunar month.
In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day(21st day) of the month at even. Exodus 12:18
Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eats leavened bread from the first day(15th) until the seventh day(of the week)(22nd), that soul shall be cut off from Israel Exodus 12:15
14th day Passover end even begins U.B. 15th day=1st day of U.B. 16th=2nd day of U.B. 17th=3rd day of U.B. 18th=4th day of U.B. 19th=5th day of U.B. 20th=6th day of U.B. 21st=7th day=last day of U.B. to the following end evening UNTIL the 22nd=THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK
Unleavened bread is eaten from the end evening of the 14th day through to the 21st day at end evening, and anyone who eats leavened bread from first day, the 15th day, through to the end evening of the 21st day, UNTIL the SEVENTH DAY=22nd day shall be cut off from Israel.
Ken, this calendar format SHOWS that there are 7 days of the feast of U.B. and not six, and if I remember correctly, it was ye that argued for there being 6 days of U.B. on Lo-Ammi before.
These two texts above PROVE that U.B. is eaten for a full seven days beginning at the end of the 14th day, and ending at the end of the 21st day UNTIL the 22nd which is called the seventh day(of the week) by Moshe.
Shalom Eliyahu, so, is the seventh day of Exo 12: 15 & 16, the seventh day of the Feast, or the seventh day of the week? And we have a similar situation with the Feast of Tabernacles. Is the eighth day here the eighth day of the week, or the eighth day of the Feast?
(Lev 23:39) Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto Yehovah seven days: on the first day [shall be] a sabbath, and on the eighth day [shall be] a sabbath. (You will say this eighth day Sabbath is the eighth day of the Feast, but on the verse below, you will say the opposite, that the seventh day sabbath is the seventh day of the week. You can't have it both ways Eliyahu.)
Compare Exo 12:16:
(Ex 12:16) And in the first day [there shall be] an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save [that] which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. (Eliyahu, why do you FORCE this seventh day to be the seventh day of a week [22nd day of the month], instead of it being the seventh day of the Feast [21st day of the month]? And you CAN'T use YOUR interpretation of UNTIL from the preceding verse (v15), because we have the example of the Passover Lambs had to be kept up UNTIL the 14th day of the 1st month (Exo 12:6), and the eating of unleavened bread had to be UNTIL the 21st day of the month (Exo 12:18). You cannot selectively use YOUR interpretation of UNTIL to mean one thing in one verse, and something other in a different verse.
Eliyahu, either the eighth day of Lev 23:39 and the seventh day of Exo 12:19 are BOTH days of the week, or they are BOTH days of the Feast. You can't have it both ways. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Eliyahu: I was searching google and found this website that I think agrees with the calendar that you gave above of the 14th--22nd day of the first month, and it seems to be saying similar as you. www.lunarsabbath.info/id9.html
Shalom Ron, I went to your link and here are some of the statements they make:
Ex- 12:15 says, “Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day UNTIL the SEVENTH day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel”.
From the above we see that when the SEVENT day arrives, you no longer have to eat unleavened bread because It teaches you eat unleavened bread UNTIL the SEVENTH day and then you can quit eating unleavened bread.
So Ron, this says the same as Eliyahu, the UNTIL means that it is ONLY up UNTIL the Seventh day STARTS. Agreed? But then look at what he says about Exo 12:6:
6And ye shall keep it up UNTIL the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it.
Notice the word UNTIL lets us know something changes WHEN the fourteenth arrives. i.e. the lamb is killed on the 14th between the evenings. Hope everyone agrees.
How about that Ron, this is exactly what Eliyahu does, the UNTIL here means that it is THROUGH the 14th, all the way to the end of the 14th. Exactly the OPPOSITE of what is said for the UNTIL of the SEVENTH day. Agreed? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
ImAHebrew: please make us a calendar with texts of scriptures that identify your Saturday Sabbath? And please we want the scriptures that identifies and references the Saturdays, and not a calendar made up of your own modern day feasts with the Saturdays added with it as ye have done.
Shalom Ron, I will first need explicit Scriptures that state each and every lunar month has a sabbath on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month, and NO suppositions or imaginations on your part. Agreed? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 19, 2023 12:14:40 GMT -5
Ken, ye are getting all mixed up, it's Exodus 12:verse 18 not verse 19, the 21st day of the first lunar month is the sixth day of the second lunar week. And as I have said before, the CHAG-H2282 is on the 15th day Exodus 12:14-15, and there is NO CHAG-H2282 on the 21st day, and Exodus 12:16 is referring to the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK on the 22nd.
The "eighth day" is an acronym meaning the seventh day of the week, because from the beginning of the 15th day to end of the 22nd day are "eight days", and there are examples of this in the scriptures, such as the cleansing of a leper in the law of Moshe-Moses.
ImAHebrew: If you can't then what is your Biblical proof for Saturday being the Sabbath? At least Eliyahu has given in calendar form and the scriptural texts that identify the Biblical dates of the Sabbaths, and that's more than you can present.
ImAHebrew: As far as the word 'until' simply mean what it says; and whether the lamb is kept up on or after is of no importance, you seem to make mountains out of moe-hills.
ImAHebrew: please make us a calendar with texts of scriptures that identify your Saturday Sabbath? And please we want the scriptures that identifies and references the Saturdays, and not a calendar made up of your own modern day feasts with the Saturdays added with it as ye have done.
Shalom Ron, I will first need explicit Scriptures that state each and every lunar month has a sabbath on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month, and NO suppositions or imaginations on your part. Agreed? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Religious people are like modern day Pharisees and are the most dishonest too.
Ken, ye are getting all mixed up, it's Exodus 12:verse 18 not verse 19, the 21st day of the first lunar month is the sixth day of the second lunar week. And as I have said before, the CHAG-H2282 is on the 15th day Exodus 12:14-15, and there is NO CHAG-H2282 on the 21st day, and Exodus 12:16 is referring to the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK on the 22nd.
The "eighth day" is an acronym meaning the seventh day of the week, because from the beginning of the 15th day to end of the 22nd day are "eight days", and there are examples of this in the scriptures, such as the cleansing of a leper in the law of Moshe-Moses.
Shalom Eliyahu, then how do you render the UNTIL/UNTO in this verse, it is the SAME Hebrew word used in Exo 12:15:
(Neh 8:18) Also day by day, from the first day unto (H5704) the last day, he read in the book of the law of Elohim. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day [was] a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.
Did they read to the BEGINNING of the last day (the way YOU interpret this word), or did they read THROUGH the last day (the way it SHOULD be interpreted)? Here again Eliyahu, just more proof that YOUR interpretation of UNTIL is not correct. And we also have Numbers 28:
Num 28:17-18, 25
(17) And in the fifteenth day of this month [is] the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
(18) In the first day [shall be] an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work [therein]: (In the FIRST day OF the Feast is a Sabbath)
(25) And on the seventh day ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work. (AND on the Seventh Day of the Feast is a Sabbath)
The Sabbaths are on the FIRST and SEVENTH days of the Feast, NOT the First day of the Feast AND then CHANGING it to the Seventh day of the week. And it doesn't hurt to bring these back in:
Lev 23:5 - 23:8
(6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto Yehovah: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
(7) In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. (In the FIRST Day of the FEAST it is an ANNUAL Sabbath)
(8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yehovah seven days: in the seventh day [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein]. (In the SEVENTH Day of the FEAST it is an ANNUAL Sabbath, NOT necessarily a WEEKLY Sabbath).
(Deut 16:8) Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day [shall be] a solemn assembly to Yehovah thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work [therein]. (It is ON the Seventh Day of the FEAST, NOT the Seventh Day of the Week that this ANNUAL Sabbath ALWAYS falls)
So Eliyahu, why keep denying this undisputable proof that the Seventh Day of the Feast of ULB (21st) was/is an ANNUAL High Day Sabbath, and NOT necessarily a weekly Sabbath? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Ken, ye are getting all mixed up, it's Exodus 12:verse 18 not verse 19, the 21st day of the first lunar month is the sixth day of the second lunar week. And as I have said before, the CHAG-H2282 is on the 15th day Exodus 12:14-15, and there is NO CHAG-H2282 on the 21st day, and Exodus 12:16 is referring to the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK on the 22nd.
The "eighth day" is an acronym meaning the seventh day of the week, because from the beginning of the 15th day to end of the 22nd day are "eight days", and there are examples of this in the scriptures, such as the cleansing of a leper in the law of Moshe-Moses.
Shalom Eliyahu, then how do you render the UNTIL/UNTO in this verse, it is the SAME Hebrew word used in Exo 12:15:
(Neh 8:18) Also day by day, from the first day unto (H5704) the last day, he read in the book of the law of Elohim. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day [was] a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.
Did they read to the BEGINNING of the last day (the way YOU interpret this word), or did they read THROUGH the last day (the way it SHOULD be interpreted)? Here again Eliyahu, just more proof that YOUR interpretation of UNTIL is not correct. And we also have Numbers 28:
Num 28:17-18, 25
(17) And in the fifteenth day of this month [is] the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
(18) In the first day [shall be] an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work [therein]: (In the FIRST day OF the Feast is a Sabbath)
(25) And on the seventh day ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work. (AND on the Seventh Day of the Feast is a Sabbath)
The Sabbaths are on the FIRST and SEVENTH days of the Feast, NOT the First day of the Feast AND then CHANGING it to the Seventh day of the week. And it doesn't hurt to bring these back in:
Lev 23:5 - 23:8
(6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto Yehovah: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
(7) In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. (In the FIRST Day of the FEAST it is an ANNUAL Sabbath)
(8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yehovah seven days: in the seventh day [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein]. (In the SEVENTH Day of the FEAST it is an ANNUAL Sabbath, NOT necessarily a WEEKLY Sabbath).
(Deut 16:8) Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day [shall be] a solemn assembly to Yehovah thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work [therein]. (It is ON the Seventh Day of the FEAST, NOT the Seventh Day of the Week that this ANNUAL Sabbath ALWAYS falls)
So Eliyahu, why keep denying this undisputable proof that the Seventh Day of the Feast of ULB (21st) was/is an ANNUAL High Day Sabbath, and NOT necessarily a weekly Sabbath? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Ken, I don't deny the seven days of U.B., and none of these texts call the 21st an ANNUAL Sabbath either, and ye simply add in your own words of interpretation, and then ye condemn me for explaining them.
By the way, Ron asked ye this question,
ImAHebrew: If you can't then what is your Biblical proof for Saturday being the Sabbath?
Shalom Again, that Deu 16:8 Scripture should get you all jumping into the boat. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
(Deut 16:8) Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day [shall be] a solemn assembly to Yehovah thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work [therein].
Did you all notice it says SIX DAYS thou shalt eat unleavened bread? Oh yes, but then ON the seventh day of eating unleavened bread shall be a solemn assembly (Sabbath). A TOTAL of seven days of eating unleavened bread with the SEVENTH day (21st of the month), an ANNUAL Sabbath.
Shalom Eliyahu, then how do you render the UNTIL/UNTO in this verse, it is the SAME Hebrew word used in Exo 12:15: Did they read to the BEGINNING of the last day (the way YOU interpret this word), or did they read THROUGH the last day (the way it SHOULD be interpreted)? Here again Eliyahu, just more proof that YOUR interpretation of UNTIL is not correct. And we also have Numbers 28: The Sabbaths are on the FIRST and SEVENTH days of the Feast, NOT the First day of the Feast AND then CHANGING it to the Seventh day of the week. And it doesn't hurt to bring these back in: So Eliyahu, why keep denying this undisputable proof that the Seventh Day of the Feast of ULB (21st) was/is an ANNUAL High Day Sabbath, and NOT necessarily a weekly Sabbath? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Ken, I don't deny the seven days of U.B., and none of these texts call the 21st an ANNUAL Sabbath either, and ye simply add in your own words of interpretation, and then ye condemn me for explaining them.
By the way, Ron asked ye this question,
ImAHebrew: If you can't then what is your Biblical proof for Saturday being the Sabbath?
Shalom Eliyahu, and NONE of the texts of those verses call them the WEEKLY Sabbath either. And I have stated my condition about finding any Scriptures which state Saturday is the Sabbath. You have to produce explicit Scriptures which state that the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the lunar months are ALWAYS weekly Sabbaths. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
ImAHebrew: If you can't then what is your Biblical proof for Saturday being the Sabbath?
Shalom Ron, on this tread I have DESTROYED completely any possibility that the lunar sabbath is true. I have also presented a MOUNTAIN of evidence that Saturday is the Sabbath, you just need to go back and re-read what I have posted. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Ken, I don't deny the seven days of U.B., and none of these texts call the 21st an ANNUAL Sabbath either, and ye simply add in your own words of interpretation, and then ye condemn me for explaining them.
By the way, Ron asked ye this question,
Shalom Eliyahu, and NONE of the texts of those verses call them the WEEKLY Sabbath either. And I have stated my condition about finding any Scriptures which state Saturday is the Sabbath. You have to produce explicit Scriptures which state that the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the lunar months are ALWAYS weekly Sabbaths. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Ken, oh but they do, they call them the seventh day, and I have given ye the dates of the 15th and 22nd as Sabbaths like Numbers 29:12-35 that identify the 15th and 22nd as Sabbaths.
Why can't ye admit that there is no scriptural texts proving that satyrday as the Sabbath?
Shalom Eliyahu, and NONE of the texts of those verses call them the WEEKLY Sabbath either. And I have stated my condition about finding any Scriptures which state Saturday is the Sabbath. You have to produce explicit Scriptures which state that the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the lunar months are ALWAYS weekly Sabbaths. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Ken, oh but they do, they call them the seventh day, and I have given ye the dates of the 15th and 22nd as Sabbaths like Numbers 29:12-35 that identify the 15th and 22nd as Sabbaths.
Why can't ye admit that there is no scriptural texts proving that satyrday as the Sabbath?
Shalom Eliyahu, show me the text in Numbers 29:12-35 that the 15th and 22nd days of the 7th month are WEEKLY Sabbaths? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
P.S. Why can't ye admit that there is no scriptural texts proving the 15th and 22nd days of the 7th month are WEEKLY Sabbaths?
Shalom Ron, on this tread I have DESTROYED completely any possibility that the lunar sabbath is true. I have also presented a MOUNTAIN of evidence that Saturday is the Sabbath, you just need to go back and re-read what I have posted. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
ImAHebrew you haven't destroyed anything in this thread; you tried to foist off on us a phony calendar with modern Saturdays connected to it, but you didn't connect any scriptural dates of texts that prove a Saturday as the true Sabbath, and your too dishonest to admit that either I believe. About all you've done is destroy your credibility.
ImAHebrew: You were shown that John 19:31, Luke 23:54-56 identifies the weekly 7th day Sabbath in the first month, and it's the only weekly 7th day Sabbath that I know of that falls before the first day of the week. Will you even admit that?
Shalom Ron, on this tread I have DESTROYED completely any possibility that the lunar sabbath is true. I have also presented a MOUNTAIN of evidence that Saturday is the Sabbath, you just need to go back and re-read what I have posted. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
ImAHebrew you haven't destroyed anything in this thread; you tried to foist off on us a phony calendar with modern Saturdays connected to it, but you didn't connect any scriptural dates of texts that prove a Saturday as the true Sabbath, and your too dishonest to admit that either I believe. About all you've done is destroy your credibility.
Shalom Ron, IF, Deu 16:8 is correct about eating unleavened bread for SIX days, and ON the seventh day is the Sabbath, then that clearly shows the lunar sabbath to be untrue. Do you see that? It doesn't say Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day (of the week) is the Sabbath, as you would hope it to say, it specifically says SIX days, and THEN the seventh day (of the Feast of eating unleavened bread) is the ANNUAL Sabbath-21st day of the month.
(Deut 16:8) Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day [shall be] a solemn assembly to Yehovah thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work [therein].
Ron, why is this so hard for you to admit? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 19, 2023 13:56:56 GMT -5
Ken, why do ye take the extra days of the Roman calendar week a try to add them into Yah's Calendar that is from NEW MOON to NEW MOON, and then call them extra days?
Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 19, 2023 14:03:47 GMT -5
Ron, the truth is that both Ken and Spying only observe one week in the first lunar month and only one week in the seventh lunar month, so do most all out of the old Worldwide Church of God, but all of the other lunar months they IGNORE completely.
ImAHebrew: You were shown that John 19:31, Luke 23:54-56 identifies the weekly 7th day Sabbath in the first month, and it's the only weekly 7th day Sabbath that I know of that falls before the first day of the week. Will you even admit that?
Shalom Ron, John 19:31 is speaking about the ANNUAL High Day Sabbath (the 1st day of ULB-Wednesday sunset thru Thursday sunset), and with Luke 23:54-56 several days pass from when the women were at the tomb watching the stone rolled into place, and then RETURNING back to Galilee to prepare the burial ointments. That all took several days (Thursday AND Friday) to where when they were done with making the burial ointments, they rested on the WEEKLY Sabbath (on Saturday) in obedience to the commandment. Hope this helps you to admit the lunar sabbath is false. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Ron, the truth is that both Ken and Spying only observe one week in the first lunar month and only one week in the seventh lunar month, so do most all out of the old Worldwide Church of God, but all of the other lunar months they IGNORE completely.
Shalom Eliyahu, that's not true. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew