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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 14, 2021 10:48:27 GMT -5
Ken, I want you to tell me what was the difference between the first Adam's flesh when he was created and the second Adam Messiah flesh, was Messiah's flesh super flesh?
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Post by Ron on Aug 14, 2021 11:00:53 GMT -5
Eliyahu: This person above won't be honest here because human flesh is human flesh; and if Adam had been created in sin, God would not have said behold, it is very good, does God call sin and evil Good?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 14, 2021 11:16:50 GMT -5
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 5:16:14 GMT -5
Imahebrew: You wrote. No: I'm not bound in sin anylonger, and Paul does not write nor tell us anywhere in 1Cor.15 that God created Adam in sin either, and that idea comes from your own imaginations about Paul's writings. So you speak for the God Heaven now too, no it was not God's plan, but it sure was that old serpent the devil Gen.3:1-4, the 'god' of this world 2Cor.4:4, and it's looking as if he has blinded your mind from this truth. Adam really didn't know and was not told to not partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Yes Adam was given that knowledge by God Himself in Gen.2:17 before Adam transgressed, you need to read the first 4 chapters of Genesis very carefully again. I also want to see if you are truly honest and godly enough to admit your error here.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 6:16:36 GMT -5
Imahebrew: You wrote. No: I'm not bound in sin anylonger, and Paul does not write nor tell us anywhere in 1Cor.15 that God created Adam in sin either, and that idea comes from your own imaginations about Paul's writings. So you speak for the God Heaven now too, no it was not God's plan, but it sure was that old serpent the devil Gen.3:1-4, the 'god' of this world 2Cor.4:4, and it's looking as if he has blinded your mind from this truth. Adam really didn't know and was not told to not partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Yes Adam was given that knowledge by God Himself in Gen.2:17 before Adam transgressed, you need to read the first 4 chapters of Genesis very carefully again. I also want to see if you are truly honest and godly enough to admit your error here. Ron, the Apostle Paul states that Elohim has bound ALL to disobedience, are you and Adam/Eve the only one's who are exempt from this binding? Believe it or not, Yeshua had to deal with the weakness of the flesh, and was also tempted in all things as we are, yet was without sin. It is the FLESH, and the physical desires of the flesh which causes this weakness of the FIRST Adam, and Yeshua came as a man, with the same flesh as Adam and us all, but was without sin. How did He accomplish something that the FIRST Adam and ALL flesh before Him could not achieve? It's very simple. He was given a FULL measure of the Spirit, and it is ONLY by the Power of the Spirit that FLESH can overcome and be without sin. The FIRST Adam was not given The Spirit as was the Second Adam. Paul taught very clearly, the Spiritual Man was NOT first, but rather the corrupt, dishonourable, and weak man was. Concerning Adam being create so that he would sin, and have no choice but to sin, you should read very carefully the account of his sin. First, I would like to inform you that Adam and Eve were like two little babies, innocent, with no knowledge as to what is right or wrong. At the end of Gen 2, BEFORE they sinned, it states that they BOTH were naked, and felt no shame. Here again, this POINTS to their innocence of NOT knowing what is good or evil...so they were not ashamed. What is nakedness a symbol of? Consider Yeshua's words: Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Nakedness is a symbol of being sinful, and the white raiment which does clothe His People, is the Righteousness of the Saints: Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.James also tells us about how to cover nakedness/sin, it is BY turning a sinner from their sin:
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.
Doing what is RIGHT covers the shame of nakedness, but sinning EXPOSES how one is NAKED. Getting back to Adam and Eve, BEFORE they sinned, they were both naked and not ashamed. But then AFTER they sinned, they REALIZED they were naked. There eyes were opened, and they SAW how they were naked. This PROVES they were created just like you and me, as a naked sinner who just needs a command given to their fleshly naked desires, and it's automatic, sin is produced. Here is the thing, when their eyes were opened, and they realized they were naked sinners, they became LIKE Elohim to KNOW good and evil, and this was ALL according to the PLAN of Elohim. Elohim WANTS His chosen Children to be like Him, to KNOW good and evil, and THEN choose the good, instead of the evil. Yeshua came to show us that PLAN by allowing ALL sinners to brutally treat Him and cause Him to suffer so. Those who REALIZE they are naked, and KNOW that their nakedness caused this pain and suffering of Yeshua, will choose the good and desire to be clothed so as to cover the shame of their nakedness. All according to the Glorious PLAN of Elohim. Ken
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 6:44:43 GMT -5
Eliyahu: This person above won't be honest here because human flesh is human flesh; and if Adam had been created in sin, God would not have said behold, it is very good, does God call sin and evil Good? Ron, Elohim called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, the Seas: and saw that it was good. And what He did on the 3rd day He saw that it was good. The same on the fourth and fifth days also...it was good. Then on the sixth day, He saw EVERYTHING that He had made and BEHOLD, it was very good. Your assumption that Elohim created man with no PREDISPOSITION towards sin by quoting " behold, it is very good," is a wrong assumption. Ken
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 6:49:26 GMT -5
Imahebrew: Nothing that you have written above or the texts that you gave disproves my post to you above. Paul is dealing with mankind after the sin of Adam, and not before the sin of Adam, and you seem to not know the difference between these two words or you simply do not want to accept them or the scriptures in Genesis, and yes Christ has made me free from sin and eternal death Rom.6:18, 22, Rom.8:2, but one would guess that you think that your continued sinning brings you much more righteousness? And if your going to be consistent about Adam flesh being created in sin, then you're also going to have to say that Christ's flesh was also sin because His lineage goes all the way back to Adam in Mark 1 and Luke 3.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 7:00:28 GMT -5
Eliyahu: Imahebrew is teaching that we must go through the law to receive God's free gifts through faith, and such a thing is no where taught in the New Testament scriptures. I thought that you would have known that. Where to begin? Ron, Paul taught that his Jewish brethren pursued righteousness based upon WORKS of the Law, and they failed to obtain that righteousness because they stumbled over the fact that Yeshua was their sacrifice…they stumbled over the stumbling Stone, a Rock of OFFENCE. They refused to BELIEVE, in FAITH, that their sin did slay and sacrifice Yeshua…that offended them, and it made them stumble. But the Gentiles accepted the Sacrifice of Yeshua, so they attained to the Righteousness which is of FAITH…they did not stumble. You should read Romans 8:1-4 very carefully to FIND where it IS taught in the New Testament Scriptures about the Righteousness of the Law that is FULFILLED by us who walk NOT after WORKS of the Law, but rather after the Spiritual Fulfillment of the Law: Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yeshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Messiah Yeshua hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for a sin offering, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled (in G1722 ἐν (en) Definition: in, on, at, by, with) BY us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Paul’s whole point is that the Law can be accomplished NOT by works, but rather by it’s Spiritual Fulfillment. The Gentiles accepted Yeshua as THEIR Spiritual offering, and that gave them the Free Gift of Righteousness because Paul made it VERY clear...it is the DOING of the Law BY HOW one is made righteous: Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] righteous before Elohim, but the doers of the law shall be declared righteous.
The Gentiles became DOERS of the Law by confessing that Yeshua was their Sacrifice. They accepted (by FAITH) that they, with the help of wicked men, did crucify Yeshua, and that in turn FULFILLED the Just Requirement of the Law concerning their sin. This Righteousness that is BY Messiah’s suffering and death, and resurrection, is available to ALL sinners….it just takes faith and belief to purchase/seek it. Ken
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 7:01:52 GMT -5
Eliyahu: This person above won't be honest here because human flesh is human flesh; and if Adam had been created in sin, God would not have said behold, it is very good, does God call sin and evil Good? Ron, Elohim called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, the Seas: and saw that it was good. And what He did on the 3rd day He saw that it was good. The same on the fourth and fifth days also...it was good. Then on the sixth day, He saw EVERYTHING that He had made and BEHOLD, it was very good. Your assumption that Elohim created man with no PREDISPOSITION towards sin by quoting " behold, it is very good," is a wrong assumption. Ken Imahebrew: I'm not making an assumption you are though, because in time sequence in Genesis 1:31 after creation God said behold, it is very good, and this was before Adam transgressed in Genesis 3 so get that straight.
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 7:06:54 GMT -5
Eliyahu: Imahebrew is teaching that we must go through the law to receive God's free gifts through faith, and such a thing is no where taught in the New Testament scriptures. I thought that you would have known that. Where to begin? Ron, Paul taught that his Jewish brethren pursued righteousness based upon WORKS of the Law, and they failed to obtain that righteousness because they stumbled over the fact that Yeshua was their sacrifice…they stumbled over the stumbling Stone, a Rock of OFFENCE. They refused to BELIEVE, in FAITH, that their sin did slay and sacrifice Yeshua…that offended them, and it made them stumble. But the Gentiles accepted the Sacrifice of Yeshua, so they attained to the Righteousness which is of FAITH…they did not stumble. You should read Romans 8:1-4 very carefully to FIND where it IS taught in the New Testament Scriptures about the Righteousness of the Law that is FULFILLED by us who walk NOT after WORKS of the Law, but rather after the Spiritual Fulfillment of the Law: Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yeshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Messiah Yeshua hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for a sin offering, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled (in G1722 ἐν (en) Definition: in, on, at, by, with) BY us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Paul’s whole point is that the Law can be accomplished NOT by works, but rather by it’s Spiritual Fulfillment. The Gentiles accepted Yeshua as THEIR Spiritual offering, and that gave them the Free Gift of Righteousness because Paul made it VERY clear...it is the DOING of the Law BY HOW one is made righteous: Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] righteous before Elohim, but the doers of the law shall be declared righteous.
The Gentiles became DOERS of the Law by confessing that Yeshua was their Sacrifice. They accepted (by FAITH) that they, with the help of wicked men, did crucify Yeshua, and that in turn FULFILLED the Just Requirement of the Law concerning their sin. This Righteousness that is BY Messiah’s suffering and death, and resurrection, is available to ALL sinners….it just takes faith and belief to purchase/seek it. Ken Imahebrew: I really don't want nor need you to tell me your own imaginations about God's words; because your own words are not God's word, they are yours.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 7:10:26 GMT -5
Imahebrew: Nothing that you have written above or the texts that you gave disproves my post to you above. Paul is dealing with mankind after the sin of Adam, and not before the sin of Adam, and you seem to not know the difference between these two words or you simply do not want to accept them or the scriptures in Genesis, and yes Christ has made me free from sin and eternal death Rom.6:18, 22, Rom.8:2, but one would guess that you think that your continued sinning brings you much more righteousness? And if your going to be consistent about Adam flesh being created in sin, then you're also going to have to say that Christ's flesh was also sin because His lineage goes all the way back to Adam in Mark 1 and Luke 3. Ron, Paul taught that the FIRST Adam was SOWN in corruption, dishonour, and weakness...why do you ignore that? They were NAKED, and didn't realize it, because they hadn't broken the command yet. Once they broke the command, they SAW they were naked. They did not BECOME naked after they sinned, they were naked BEFORE, and that positively proves their carnal condition of being sown in corruption, dishonour, and weakness. No where do I teach that one should remain in sin to bring "much more righteousness." That is how those who slandered Paul spoke about him..."Let us do evil so that good may come." The Messiah's flesh was exactly like Adam's, yours and mine. But He had a FULL measure of the Spirit which is so much more powerful than the pulls and desires of the flesh, so He was without sin. Why do you not accept the Power of the Spirit keeping Him from sin, as He was the Second Adam, the Spiritual Man? Ken
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 15, 2021 7:13:51 GMT -5
Ken, here is ONLY one of your problems.
Where is this written in the new testament scriptures?
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 7:19:18 GMT -5
Imahebrew: I have no problem with God's Holy Spirit empowering us to not sin, the problem that I have is with your idea that Adam was created in sin which is a lie.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 7:31:06 GMT -5
Imahebrew: I have no problem with God's Holy Spirit empowering us to not sin, the problem that I have is with your idea that Adam was created in sin which is a lie. Ron, Adam and Eve were created FLESH, and Yeshua says that the FLESH is weak. Why won't you believe Him? Ken
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 7:39:45 GMT -5
Imahebrew: I have no problem with God's Holy Spirit empowering us to not sin, the problem that I have is with your idea that Adam was created in sin which is a lie. Ron, Adam and Eve were created FLESH, and Yeshua says that the FLESH is weak. Why won't you believe Him? Ken ImAHebrew: I do believe Him, but the flesh of Adam being 'weak' does not mean that God created Adam in sin either, because the word 'weak' does not mean 'sin'. Suppose you tell us why satan the devil is called a murderer, who did he murder?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 15, 2021 7:47:41 GMT -5
Ken, you try to use the new testament scriptures to disprove Ron's texts in Genesis, which should not, and cannot be done, and it is my opinion that ye have lost the argument already.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 8:01:40 GMT -5
Ron, Adam and Eve were created FLESH, and Yeshua says that the FLESH is weak. Why won't you believe Him? Ken ImAHebrew: I do believe Him, but the flesh of Adam being 'weak' does not mean that God created Adam in sin either, because the word 'weak' does not mean 'sin'. Suppose you tell us why satan the devil is called a murderer, who did he murder? Ron, creating Adam flesh, and him being 'weak' does mean that Elohim created Adam with the predisposition towards sin, just as ALL flesh is predisposed towards sinning. Paul says that as Adam was, so is all flesh, and you disregard him. Why? Concerning Satan being a murderer from the beginning. He did that when he rebelled against Elohim PRIOR to the renewal of the Earth (that was approx 6000 yrs ago that Elohim renewed the face of the earth, so Satan was a murderer BEFORE Adam and Eve sinned). And WHO was murdered...it was the FAMILY of Elohim when Satan started a war and brought down 1/3 of the angels---that was murder on his part, and this is what caused the earth to be void and without form, with darkness coving the face of the deep. (How many pearls do you need before you turn and try to tear me to pieces?) Ken
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 8:03:50 GMT -5
Ken, you try to use the new testament scriptures to disprove Ron's texts in Genesis, which should not, and cannot be done, and it is my opinion that ye have lost the argument already. Eliyahu, and your opinion is as wrong as it could be. Ken
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 8:14:29 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: I do believe Him, but the flesh of Adam being 'weak' does not mean that God created Adam in sin either, because the word 'weak' does not mean 'sin'. Suppose you tell us why satan the devil is called a murderer, who did he murder? Ron, creating Adam flesh, and him being 'weak' does mean that Elohim created Adam with the predisposition towards sin, just as ALL flesh is predisposed towards sinning. Paul says that as Adam was, so is all flesh, and you disregard him. Why? Concerning Satan being a murderer from the beginning. He did that when he rebelled against Elohim PRIOR to the renewal of the Earth (that was approx 6000 yrs ago that Elohim renewed the face of the earth, so Satan was a murderer BEFORE Adam and Eve sinned). And WHO was murdered...it was the FAMILY of Elohim when Satan started a war and brought down 1/3 of the angels---that was murder on his part, and this is what caused the earth to be void and without form, with darkness coving the face of the deep. (How many pearls do you need before you turn and try to tear me to pieces?) Ken ImAHebrew: And as I said, Paul is dealing with Adam after he sinned, and not before Adam sinned, and do believe Paul, and what I don't believe is your reinterpreted words about Paul writings. And your answer here is partly correct but satan the devil murdered the entire human race through his lie and deception to Eve in Genesis.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 15, 2021 8:19:42 GMT -5
Ken, you try to use the new testament scriptures to disprove Ron's texts in Genesis, which should not, and cannot be done, and it is my opinion that ye have lost the argument already. Eliyahu, and your opinion is as wrong as it could be. Ken Well Ken, at least Ron has given the very texts in the book of Genesis to prove his point in proper time order regarding Adam BEFORE he sinned, and you have not old friend.
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Post by Ron on Aug 15, 2021 8:23:43 GMT -5
Imahebrew: If I'm not mistaken you are teaching a form of Mormonism.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 8:34:38 GMT -5
Ken, here is ONLY one of your problems. Where is this written in the new testament scriptures? Eliyahu, I have given this to you before: Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of Elohim, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
"By wicked hands," were the wicked men (the leaders of the Jews and the Romans) who carried out the crucifixion. Now, as you have been told before, IF one FALLS AWAY, AFTER knowing the Truth, to where they need to again come to repentance of being a sinner, they do re-crucify Yeshua afresh:
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of Elohim afresh, and put [Him] to an open shame.
And how does this put Yeshua to "open shame?" IF you had repented of your sin and are part of His Body, and then you fall away, back INTO deliberate sin, you do SHAME Him by your sin in trying to make Him again be an offering for sin, and this is not allowed: Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.We all did "strike" the Rock of our salvation ONCE by sinning, with the help of those wicked hands, and just as Moses did strike the rock twice and was not allowed to enter the Promised Land, so also those that KNOW the Truth about how their sin did STRIKE Yeshua, if they fall away to where they STRIKE Him a second time, it is bad news for them. Ken
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 15, 2021 8:54:40 GMT -5
Ken, here is ONLY one of your problems. Where is this written in the new testament scriptures? Eliyahu, I have given this to you before: Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of Elohim, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
"By wicked hands," were the wicked men (the leaders of the Jews and the Romans) who carried out the crucifixion. Now, as you have been told before, IF one FALLS AWAY, AFTER knowing the Truth, to where they need to again come to repentance of being a sinner, they do re-crucify Yeshua afresh:
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of Elohim afresh, and put [Him] to an open shame.
And how does this put Yeshua to "open shame?" IF you had repented of your sin and are part of His Body, and then you fall away, back INTO deliberate sin, you do SHAME Him by your sin in trying to make Him again be an offering for sin, and this is not allowed: Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.We all did "strike" the Rock of our salvation ONCE by sinning, with the help of those wicked hands, and just as Moses did strike the rock twice and was not allowed to enter the Promised Land, so also those that KNOW the Truth about how their sin did STRIKE Yeshua, if they fall away to where they STRIKE Him a second time, it is bad news for them. KenAnd Ken, as I have told you before and shown you the scriptures in the gospels and the book of Hebrews, and I think that Ron has also quoted them to you, Messish gave Himself as our offering sacrifice the 1st time, and yes, if on sins willfully, then and only then do they recrucify Him and put him to an open sham. And Ken your much words of speaking and writings ABOUT this subject means nothing, what matters to me and those who are really honest are the written scriptures themselves, and not yours or my ideas ABOUT them.
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Post by Eliyahu on Aug 15, 2021 9:00:26 GMT -5
Eliyahu, and your opinion is as wrong as it could be. Ken Well Ken, at least Ron has given the very texts in the book of Genesis to prove his point in proper time order regarding Adam BEFORE he sinned, and you have not old friend. Eliyahu, no, that is an "interpretation" on his and your part. "EVERYTHING" that Elohim created turned out EXACTLY how He determined it to be, so that was very good. He was pleased. But what you both fail to acknowledge is that Yeshua was SLAIN BEFORE the foundation of the world: Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
And Peter was in agreement that Yeshua was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world: 1Pet 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
And Paul explains that believers were CHOSEN in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world: Eph 1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:If all of this took place before the foundation of the world, why create a plan that has Adam and Eve with NO predisposition towards sin? Cannot you see that Elohim PLANNED a way to raise up OBEDIENT Children by FIRST allowing them to experience corruption, dishonour, and weakness? And would this not be a VERY GOOD PLAN? Just look at how Elohim has made us physically. We FIRST have to be exposed to a disease BEFORE our bodies become "immune" to the disease by CREATING "antibodies" to defeat the disease. So also, this is WHY Elohim FIRST exposed mankind to PHYSICAL sin so that mankind could develop a way to overcome and defeat the disease of sin. Pretty simple isn't it? So my question to you both is...Why would Elohim create Adam and Eve PERFECT, with no predisposition towards sin, which would ALLOW them to then FOIL His PLAN by being obedient? Ken
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 15, 2021 9:11:30 GMT -5
Eliyahu, I have given this to you before: Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of Elohim, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
"By wicked hands," were the wicked men (the leaders of the Jews and the Romans) who carried out the crucifixion. Now, as you have been told before, IF one FALLS AWAY, AFTER knowing the Truth, to where they need to again come to repentance of being a sinner, they do re-crucify Yeshua afresh:
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of Elohim afresh, and put [Him] to an open shame.
And how does this put Yeshua to "open shame?" IF you had repented of your sin and are part of His Body, and then you fall away, back INTO deliberate sin, you do SHAME Him by your sin in trying to make Him again be an offering for sin, and this is not allowed: Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.We all did "strike" the Rock of our salvation ONCE by sinning, with the help of those wicked hands, and just as Moses did strike the rock twice and was not allowed to enter the Promised Land, so also those that KNOW the Truth about how their sin did STRIKE Yeshua, if they fall away to where they STRIKE Him a second time, it is bad news for them. KenAnd Ken, as I have told you before and shown you the scriptures in the gospels and the book of Hebrews, and I think that Ron has also quoted them to you, Messish gave Himself as our offering sacrifice the 1st time, and yes, if on sins willfully, then and only then do they recrucify Him and put him to an open sham. And Ken your much words of speaking and writings ABOUT this subject means nothing, what matters to me and those who are really honest are the written scriptures themselves, and not yours or my ideas ABOUT them. Eliyahu, at least I will give a written explanation of what the Scriptures do mean and say. But with you, when confronted to explain or tell us what your thoughts about a Scripture is, you will remain silent and try quoting another Scripture that you are misunderstanding. A perfect example is your refusal to explain how the "blood" of Yeshua washes you from your sins. Will you ever try to explain that? Ken
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Post by Ron on Aug 16, 2021 5:09:08 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: When your asked a simple question where a simple yes or no answer will suffice then you write a 1 or 2 page report that everyone must read through it to see if the answer is there and then never get a direct answer to the question. Was it really in God's plan to have the serpent or the devil show up in the garden of Eden to deceive Eve and Adam into sinning? If it was in God's plan for Adam and Eve to sin as you think, then why would God even have put 'the tree of life' in the garden of Eden?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 16, 2021 6:18:25 GMT -5
Ken,
Why do I even have to give my own explanation ABOUT the scriptures when the scriptures explain themselves? You and Spying rattle on with your own ideas ABOUT the scriptures so much that ye end up contradicting whole texts of other scriptures as I have proven many times on LO-AMMI forum.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Aug 16, 2021 6:58:30 GMT -5
Eliyahu and Ron, goodbye. We can pick this back up on the 8th Great Day after your resurrection. Ken
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Post by Ron on Aug 20, 2021 7:17:09 GMT -5
Imahebrew: You remind me of these words by Attorney Richard Humpal.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Aug 31, 2021 7:59:51 GMT -5
Ken, here is ONLY one of your problems. Where is this written in the new testament scriptures? Eliyahu, I have given this to you before: Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of Elohim, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
"By wicked hands," were the wicked men (the leaders of the Jews and the Romans) who carried out the crucifixion. Now, as you have been told before, IF one FALLS AWAY, AFTER knowing the Truth, to where they need to again come to repentance of being a sinner, they do re-crucify Yeshua afresh:
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of Elohim afresh, and put [Him] to an open shame.
And how does this put Yeshua to "open shame?" IF you had repented of your sin and are part of His Body, and then you fall away, back INTO deliberate sin, you do SHAME Him by your sin in trying to make Him again be an offering for sin, and this is not allowed: Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.We all did "strike" the Rock of our salvation ONCE by sinning, with the help of those wicked hands, and just as Moses did strike the rock twice and was not allowed to enter the Promised Land, so also those that KNOW the Truth about how their sin did STRIKE Yeshua, if they fall away to where they STRIKE Him a second time, it is bad news for them. KenKen, And why won't ye accept your own statement here? It does not say "that we crucified Yeshua" does it? Ken, where are the texts of scriptures that tell us "that we crucified Yeshua" or the text that tells us "that we sacrificed Yeshua"? E.C. And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us/our offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour. Ephesians 5:2. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eph&c=5&t=KJV#2This text plainly tells us, that Messiah has given Himself for our offering and sacrifice to Elohim. E.C. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:26 www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=appeared+to+put+away+sin+by+the+sacrifice+of+himself&t=KJVThis text plainly tells us that Messiah put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.E.C. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Hebrews 10:8-12. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=10&v=1&t=KJV#topBut I guess that ye forgot these verses in Hebrews didn't ye?
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