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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 4, 2022 15:06:13 GMT -5
Ken, if you come here again, please read this, and please notice your contradiction. You wrote-quote, www.lo-ammi.org/forum/main/lo-ammi-forum/64402-the-beasts-of-revelations-part-1#post64414I gather that ye are getting this from Revelation 13:17, as if those who receive the mark of the beast can buy and sell from Yahushua, am I correct? Well, here is Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus/Yahushua, and for the word of God/Elohim, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ/Messiah a thousand years. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=mark+of+the+beast&t=KJVKen, it's only those who have NOT received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands that reign with Messiah, and can ye not SEE your contradiction of this text?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 5, 2022 18:31:04 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, let me try to help you understand. Along with those of Rev 20:4 (who did not worship the beast and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands), we also have the VIRGINS of Rev 14:4 who were not defiled with women, and they were Firstfruits, following Messiah...REDEEMED from among men.
My point is that ONLY those who have DIED with Messiah, and have BURIED their DEAD sinful bodies that USED to be MARKED with sin, and ALSO had relations with false religions of the world (women that defiled them), that THESE redeemed Saints do NOW only follow Messiah and will not RECEIVE the Mark of Sin in their LIVES, neither will they intercourse with the harlots of false religions, for they are VIRGINS, saving themselves for Messiah. They used to be marked with sin, and they used to be intercoursing with harlots, but NOW they have been saved from their former ways, and RISEN up into a NEW LIFE in Messiah, that does NOT take upon themselves the Mark of the Beast (sin), neither do they intercourse with harlots...they remain VIRGINS.
Hopefully this helps you grasp your misconception of how you have not understood. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 6, 2022 9:30:26 GMT -5
Ken, thanks for responding, but ye still did not answer my question here- Don't worry I'm not trying to catch ye up with the scriptures, I'm trying to have a simple discussion with you about this subject and understand your views on this, as my mind is always open to truth, and I hope yours is too.
Also, to you, what is the IMAGE OF THE BEAST? And how do ye fit the prophecy of Daniel 7 into all of this?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 6, 2022 19:01:14 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, it's hard to change the spots on a leopard, isn't it? First, what I wrote recently on Lo-Ammi states exactly what is purchased from Yeshua. Secondly, what I originally wrote on Lo-Ammi about the Beasts of Revelations has a very detailed explanation of what the IMAGE OF THE BEAST is...do I need to quote that on this thread? Thirdly, my post #3 on the Beasts of Revelations thread at Lo-Ammi was written specifically to address your concerns of Daniel 7.
I too desire anyone who has knowledge and understanding to share it with me, but my track record from you has been your persistent denial of the Truth. Have you changed? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 7, 2022 10:32:01 GMT -5
Ken, you seem to be callused toward me because I point out your contradictions of the scriptures, also, I don't deny the truth of the scriptures themselves, what I do have problems with is YE own ideas ABOUT and re-interpreting the scriptures. We are admonished to believe the scriptures themselves, and not people's own ideas ABOUT the scriptures, and when men's own ideas contradict the scriptures, then those ideas are to be rejected, like this statement of yours below. Really? This righteousness comes to us as a result of our sins? Or, does this free gift of righteousness come to us by Elohim as a result of us separating ourselves from our sins? Can ye not see that your wrong view of Romans 5:16 also sways your views on other things too? The only thing that we get by sinning is death Romans 6:21, 23, and that's what comes to us as a result of sin. And if ye or anyone else is in doubt about what Paul meant in Romans 5:16, then these texts by Paul in the very next chapter of Romans 6:18, 22 leaves no doubt what Paul really meant. Rom.6:18 Being G1659 G0 then G1161 made free G1659 from G575 sin, G266 ye became the servants G1402 of righteousness. G1343 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Rom.6:22 But G1161 now G3570 being made free G1659 from G575 sin, G266 and G1161 become servants G1402 to God, G2316 ye have G2192 your G5216 fruit G2590 unto G1519 holiness, G38 and G1161 the end G5056 everlasting G166 life. G2222 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=made+free+from+sin&t=KJVAnd please tell us, how can ye buy a free gift?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 8, 2022 11:30:43 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, you may be right just a little…over the years of conversing with you, and your persistent denial of the Truth, I might be just a little callused towards you, but I still have a faint hope that some day you will begin to understand those DIFFICULT writings about what the Apostle Paul had to say concerning salvation ( 2 Pet 3:14-18). You remind me those unbelieving Jewish kinsmen (according to the flesh) of the Apostle Paul who would listen to what he had to say about salvation, and then twist or distort what he said. Several examples…Concerning the Free Gift of Righteousness that comes FROM Elohim which OUR unrighteousness commends (establishes), is written about here by Paul in Rom 3:5-8: Rom 3:5-8 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of Elohim, what shall we say? Is Elohim unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) (6) Elohim forbid: for then how shall Elohim judge the world? (7) For if the truth of Elohim hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? (8) And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
You see Eliyahu, OUR sin/unrighteousness COMMENDS the righteousness of Elohim. That word used for commend is G4921 and it means “introduce or to exhibit.” Thayer says, “to show, prove, establish, exhibit,” and that is what OUR sin/unrighteousness does, concerning how the Free Gift of Righteousness COMES from Elohim. Now, those unstable/lawless kinsmen of Paul twisted what he was saying and SLANDERED him by affirming that he said, “ Let us do evil, that good may come.” They took how Paul taught about salvation and how he would teach that the righteousness from Elohim (as a free gift) is established by unrighteousness/sin, and then would say, “Well, let’s sin all the more so that this Grace-Free Gift of Righteousness can abound/increase.” Or, “What you are saying Paul is that Messiah PROMOTES sin, that is, if YOU are right about HAVING to be a sinner to receive this Free Gift of Justification/Righteousness?” Concerning Roms 5. Again, Paul taught something very difficult that unstable and lawless men twist and distort. He said that Adam was a TYPE or FIGURE of The Coming One (Messiah) in verse 14, and EXPLAINS what he meant in the following verses. The NEXT verse is mistranslated by those who misunderstand and twist Paul. That next verse should be rendered: “But NOT with respect to the offence, RATHER, the free gift.” The TYPE or FIGURE of Adam to Messiah is NOT according to the offence, rather it is ONLY by looking at the GIFT that they both gave that the comparison can be made. Adam’s gift was given as a result of JUST one offence, and the gift was death and condemnation. Messiah’s gift was given as a result of MANY offences (v16), and resulted in righteousness and life. That is the simplicity of what Paul was writing, and he also states the Law ENTERED in to INCREASE Adam’s offence, and where this INCREASE of Adam’s offence (sin) abounds, Grace abounds all the more. Those of us who “see” how our sin increases Grace, we THEN MUST turn from our sin, and NOT continue in it. That is what the Grace of Elohim teaches us ( Titus 2:11-15). But it takes FAITH to receive or be credited with this Righteousness, just as it took faith for Abraham to believe Elohim, and to then be CREDITED with Righteousness. Abram was childless with no heir, and Elohim’s GIFT to him was that his SEED would be as the number of the stars of heaven, and Abram had FAITH in believing what Elohim told him, and this was CREDITED to Abram as RIGHTEOUSNESS. Could not you say that Abram, by believing and having faith, BOUGHT this RIGHTEOUSNESS that was CREDITED to him? That is how Abram BOUGHT his free gift (with belief and faith, not with money), and it is ALSO how believers BUY through FAITH, the salvation that is IN Messiah Yeshua, which comes as a result our sin "commending/establishing" the Free Gift of Righteousness. Hope this helps. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 8, 2022 15:06:34 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, you may be right just a little…over the years of conversing with you, and your persistent denial of the Truth, I might be just a little callused towards you, but I still have a faint hope that some day you will begin to understand those DIFFICULT writings about what the Apostle Paul had to say concerning salvation ( 2 Pet 3:14-18). You remind me those unbelieving Jewish kinsmen (according to the flesh) of the Apostle Paul who would listen to what he had to say about salvation, and then twist or distort what he said. Several examples…Concerning the Free Gift of Righteousness that comes FROM Elohim which OUR unrighteousness commends (establishes), is written about here by Paul in Rom 3:5-8: Rom 3:5-8 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of Elohim, what shall we say? Is Elohim unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) (6) Elohim forbid: for then how shall Elohim judge the world? (7) For if the truth of Elohim hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? (8) And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
You see Eliyahu, OUR sin/unrighteousness COMMENDS the righteousness of Elohim. That word used for commend is G4921 and it means “introduce or to exhibit.” Thayer says, “to show, prove, establish, exhibit,” and that is what OUR sin/unrighteousness does, concerning how the Free Gift of Righteousness COMES from Elohim. Now, those unstable/lawless kinsmen of Paul twisted what he was saying and SLANDERED him by affirming that he said, “ Let us do evil, that good may come.” They took how Paul taught about salvation and how he would teach that the righteousness from Elohim (as a free gift) is established by unrighteousness/sin, and then would say, “Well, let’s sin all the more so that this Grace-Free Gift of Righteousness can abound/increase.” Or, “What you are saying Paul is that Messiah PROMOTES sin, that is, if YOU are right about HAVING to be a sinner to receive this Free Gift of Justification/Righteousness?” Concerning Roms 5. Again, Paul taught something very difficult that unstable and lawless men twist and distort. He said that Adam was a TYPE or FIGURE of The Coming One (Messiah) in verse 14, and EXPLAINS what he meant in the following verses. The NEXT verse is mistranslated by those who misunderstand and twist Paul. That next verse should be rendered: “But NOT with respect to the offence, RATHER, the free gift.” The TYPE or FIGURE of Adam to Messiah is NOT according to the offence, rather it is ONLY by looking at the GIFT that they both gave that the comparison can be made. Adam’s gift was given as a result of JUST one offence, and the gift was death and condemnation. Messiah’s gift was given as a result of MANY offences (v16), and resulted in righteousness and life. That is the simplicity of what Paul was writing, and he also states the Law ENTERED in to INCREASE Adam’s offence, and where this INCREASE of Adam’s offence (sin) abounds, Grace abounds all the more. Those of us who “see” how our sin increases Grace, we THEN MUST turn from our sin, and NOT continue in it. That is what the Grace of Elohim teaches us ( Titus 2:11-15). But it takes FAITH to receive or be credited with this Righteousness, just as it took faith for Abraham to believe Elohim, and to then be CREDITED with Righteousness. Abram was childless with no heir, and Elohim’s GIFT to him was that his SEED would be as the number of the stars of heaven, and Abram had FAITH in believing what Elohim told him, and this was CREDITED to Abram as RIGHTEOUSNESS. Could not you say that Abram, by believing and having faith, BOUGHT this RIGHTEOUSNESS that was CREDITED to him? That is how Abram BOUGHT his free gift (with belief and faith, not with money), and it is ALSO how believers BUY through FAITH, the salvation that is IN Messiah Yeshua, which comes as a result our sin "commending/establishing" the Free Gift of Righteousness. Hope this helps. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, here below is your previous written statement compared to how those kinsman of Paul's thought about Paul. Your previous statement here. Your other statement here And as I have already told you in the past, ye are believing and teaching the very thing those lawless kinsman falsely accused the apostle Paul of doing, ye believe those lawless kinsman or ye would not have written that first statement above, but, I'm glad that ye corrected it in this latest post by writing above """the Free Gift of Righteousness COMES from Elohim.""" Also, Adam was NOT the first "created being" to sin, as Paul does not mention that in the book of Romans, it was the devil that had the power of death, and Paul does mention this in Hebrews 2:14, and it was the devil that first sinned 1 John 3:8, and IF as ye are saying is true, then even the devil could be redeemed too, which is prepostrious. Also, ye take Paul's "single statement in Romans 5:16" out of his own context, and then ye ignore Paul's 2 other statements in Romans 6:18, 22, which absolutely PROVES exactly what Paul really meant. Romans 6:18 Being then made free from/G575/separate of sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.G575 1. of separation www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G575&t=KJV Romans 6:22 But now being made free from/G575/separate of/ sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=made+free+from+sin&t=KJVI'm not finished with your last post here either.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 8, 2022 22:22:32 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, do you even read what I write? The Apostle Paul stated they claimed he taught, " Let us do evil so that good may come," do you even comprehend what that means? Why would they claim he taught that, and why would Paul even bring it up? Do you think it might have something to do with the fact that several verses before that he stated OUR unrighteousness ESTABLISHES ( G4921) the righteousness of Elohim (" Let us do evil so that good may come"). Paul taught his fellow kinsmen that IF they desired to have the righteousness FOUND through Messiah, that they HAD to be a sinner ( Gal 2:17). This is why he proposed the question, " Is therefore Messiah the MINISTER of sin?" The righteousness that comes to us as a Free Gift (Grace from Elohim) is ESTABLISHED ( G4921) as a result of our sin (the mark of the beast). Please do not wrest what I write and put YOUR own slant on it. The difference between Adam bringing sin into the world ( Rom 5:12), and Satan sinning from the beginning, is that Satan KNEW better (he HAD the knowledge of good and evil), but Adam did not. Therefore, Adam can be redeemed, Satan cannot. Hope that helps. Finally, how does Rom 6:18 & 22 explain what Paul meant in Rom 5:16? Please expound without wresting. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 8:56:23 GMT -5
Ken, is your mind really so twisted that ye can't see your contradiction of Paul's text below? I didn't write this dumb scripture contradicting statement, you did. Well, here is what Paul says that one gets as a result of sin. Romans 6:23What comes to anyone as a result of sin is death, and NOT righteousness. Paul's words in Romans 6:18 in the Strong's here. Being G1659 G0 then G1161 made free G1659 from G575 sin, G266 ye became the servants G1402 of righteousness. G1343 Paul's words repeated in Romans 6:22. But G1161 now G3570 being made free G1659 from G575 sin, G266 and G1161 become servants G1402 to God, G2316 ye have G2192 your G5216 fruit G2590 unto G1519 holiness, G38 and G1161 the end G5056 everlasting G166 life. G2222 Strong's G5751. of separation ἀπό apó, apo'; a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):—(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G575&t=KJVThe explanation of Romans 6:18, 22 above is that Messiah separates us out of away from and free from sin UNTO righteousness. Tell us Ken, does Messiah save and separates us out away from our sins, or does Messiah save us in our sins, which?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 9:22:44 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, you just don't get it do you? The Law of Elohim states that IF you fail to keep any of the commandments then you are to bring your sin offering to the door of the tabernacle and slay it. When you do that, just as the Law commands, it is righteousness for you, but like you, and Paul's Jewish kinsmen, you all can ONLY view killing the sin offering along literal lines, and you would never bring your offering to the door of YOUR tabernacle, which is your mouth. Please Eliyahu, confess with your mouth that YOU, with the help of wicked men did SLAY your sin offering Yeshua (BY SINNING), and this becomes Righteousness for you...a DOING of the Law, not by the letter, but rather by the Spirit. How long do I need to be patient with you.
Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 9:28:45 GMT -5
Also Ken, why do ye IGNORE this preposition ""UNTO"" in Romans 5:16? And G2532 not G3756 as G5613 it was by G1223 one G1520 that sinned, G264 so is the gift: G1434 for G1063 G3303 the judgment G2917 was by G1537 one G1520 to G1519 condemnation, G2631 but G1161 the free gift G5486 is of G1537 many G4183 offences G3900 unto G1519 justification. G1345 www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rom&c=5&v=16&t=KJV&sstr=1And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences UNTO justification. So Paul is saying that we go from a previous position of sin or offences UNTO justification or righteousness.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 9:32:31 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, you just don't get it do you? The Law of Elohim states that IF you fail to keep any of the commandments then you are to bring your sin offering to the door of the tabernacle and slay it. When you do that, just as the Law commands, it is righteousness for you, but like you, and Paul's Jewish kinsmen, you all can ONLY view killing the sin offering along literal lines, and you would never bring your offering to the door of YOUR tabernacle, which is your mouth. Please Eliyahu, confess with your mouth that YOU, with the help of wicked men did SLAY your sin offering Yeshua (BY SINNING), and this becomes Righteousness for you...a DOING of the Law, not by the letter, but rather by the Spirit. How long do I need to be patient with you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, yea that's typical of you, make this about me, so ye can deflect from your contradictions of Paul's words.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 9:36:07 GMT -5
And Ken, please tell us, where did Yah Messiah get His grace and righteousness, did He get it from His sin too?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 9:48:18 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, you just don't get it do you? The Law of Elohim states that IF you fail to keep any of the commandments then you are to bring your sin offering to the door of the tabernacle and slay it. When you do that, just as the Law commands, it is righteousness for you, but like you, and Paul's Jewish kinsmen, you all can ONLY view killing the sin offering along literal lines, and you would never bring your offering to the door of YOUR tabernacle, which is your mouth. Please Eliyahu, confess with your mouth that YOU, with the help of wicked men did SLAY your sin offering Yeshua (BY SINNING), and this becomes Righteousness for you...a DOING of the Law, not by the letter, but rather by the Spirit. How long do I need to be patient with you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, please show where the apostle Paul taught this? But don't take a supposedly writing by Barnabas and attribute it to Paul, and then try to twist Paul's writings to fit it.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 9:57:36 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, let's take a look at Rom 5:16 in another translation (NASB+).
Rom 5:16 The gift G1434 is not like G5613 that which came through G1223 the one G1520 who sinned G264; for on the one G3303a hand G3303a R1 the judgment G2917 arose from one G1520 transgression N1 resulting G1519 in condemnation G2631, but on the other G1161 hand G1161 the free G5486 gift G5486 arose from many G4183 transgressions G3900 N2 resulting G1519 in justification G1345.
Now, the KJV:
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
If you notice Eliyahu, the KJV translators ADDED in the bold italics at the beginning of the verse, and they, like you were clueless as to what Paul was saying. The NASB translators get it much better....The gift is not by one that sinned; for the judgment from one resulted in condemnation, but the free gift from many offences UNTO (resulting in) justification.
You have to jump through hoops to try to make your explanation even remotely plausible. It's very clear though. The Free Gift is FROM many offences, resulting in justification. This is just one of the many nails in your coffin of misunderstanding Paul.
Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Ron on Jan 9, 2022 9:57:52 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: God had given Adam and Eve this knowledge, and Eve tells you so in Genesis 3:3. And do you really believe that men don't really know that they are sinning today either?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 10:03:29 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, let's take a look at Rom 5:16 in another translation (NASB+). Rom 5:16 The gift G1434 is not like G5613 that which came through G1223 the one G1520 who sinned G264; for on the one G3303a hand G3303a R1 the judgment G2917 arose from one G1520 transgression N1 resulting G1519 in condemnation G2631, but on the other G1161 hand G1161 the free G5486 gift G5486 arose from many G4183 transgressions G3900 N2 resulting G1519 in justification G1345. Now, the KJV: Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.If you notice Eliyahu, the KJV translators ADDED in the bold italics at the beginning of the verse, and they, like you were clueless as to what Paul was saying. The NASB translators get it much better....The gift is not by one that sinned; for the judgment from one resulted in condemnation, but the free gift from many offences UNTO (resulting in) justification. You have to jump through hoops to try to make your explanation even remotely plausible. It's very clear though. The Free Gift is FROM many offences, resulting in justification. This is just one of the many nails in your coffin of misunderstanding Paul. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, The apostle Paul is very plain in Romans 6:18 and verse 22 as to what he means, Yah Messiah makes us FREE out away from our sins UNTO His justification and righteousness, will ye not believe Paul?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 10:04:55 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, you just don't get it do you? The Law of Elohim states that IF you fail to keep any of the commandments then you are to bring your sin offering to the door of the tabernacle and slay it. When you do that, just as the Law commands, it is righteousness for you, but like you, and Paul's Jewish kinsmen, you all can ONLY view killing the sin offering along literal lines, and you would never bring your offering to the door of YOUR tabernacle, which is your mouth. Please Eliyahu, confess with your mouth that YOU, with the help of wicked men did SLAY your sin offering Yeshua (BY SINNING), and this becomes Righteousness for you...a DOING of the Law, not by the letter, but rather by the Spirit. How long do I need to be patient with you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, please show where the apostle Paul taught this? But don't take a supposedly writing by Barnabas and attribute it to Paul, and then try to twist Paul's writings to fit it. Shalom Eliyahu, you have readily admitted that Yeshua was the Red Heifer, yet no where does Paul in his writings specifically state this. Are you in error by believing that Yeshua is the Red Heifer? And IF He is the Red Heifer, why can't He be the Sin Offering, and follow the requirements from the Law as outlined for sinners to do? You amaze me in how you deny the Truth. Blessings In The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 10:15:01 GMT -5
Ken, oh yes Paul does mention the Heifer in Hebrews 9:13-14, but Yah Messiah the Heifer offered Himself without spot to Elohim, and Paul does NOT write "that we offered Messiah" to Elohim. Read it here. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV#13
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 10:39:48 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, let's take a look at Rom 5:16 in another translation (NASB+). Rom 5:16 The gift G1434 is not like G5613 that which came through G1223 the one G1520 who sinned G264; for on the one G3303a hand G3303a R1 the judgment G2917 arose from one G1520 transgression N1 resulting G1519 in condemnation G2631, but on the other G1161 hand G1161 the free G5486 gift G5486 arose from many G4183 transgressions G3900 N2 resulting G1519 in justification G1345. Now, the KJV: Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.If you notice Eliyahu, the KJV translators ADDED in the bold italics at the beginning of the verse, and they, like you were clueless as to what Paul was saying. The NASB translators get it much better....The gift is not by one that sinned; for the judgment from one resulted in condemnation, but the free gift from many offences UNTO (resulting in) justification. You have to jump through hoops to try to make your explanation even remotely plausible. It's very clear though. The Free Gift is FROM many offences, resulting in justification. This is just one of the many nails in your coffin of misunderstanding Paul. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, The apostle Paul is very plain in Romans 6:18 and verse 22 as to what he means, Yah Messiah makes us FREE out away from our sins UNTO His justification and righteousness, will ye not believe Paul? Shalom Eliyahu, every pulpit preacher and televangelist claims they understand Paul by believing "Jesus" takes away or makes them free from their sin. But the Truth is, they have NO comprehension as to what Paul means. Yeshua's role in being sent was to TURN us AWAY from all of our iniquities: Act 3:26 Unto you first Elohim, having raised up his Son Yeshua, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.Now, how does it work? What is the catalyst in TURNING away everyone one of you from his iniquities? Peter presents it in the preceding verses: Act 3:12-19 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? (13) The Elohim of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the Elohim of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. (14) But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; (15) And killed the Prince of life, whom Elohim hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. (16) And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by Him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. (17) And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. (18) But those things, which Elohim before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Messiah should suffer, He hath so fulfilled. (19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Master;It's ALL right there Eliyahu. What Peter is telling them APPLIES to us also. It is a confession and repentance from KILLING Yeshua, and THAT is how one is TURNED away from ALL of their iniquities. We all acted in ignorance, but we did it through our sin, and that is what kills Yeshua. It is that confession, in faith, which can result in fulfilling what the Law required of sinners...which is to slay their sin offering. Elohim sent Yeshua to show us how sinning kills. Yeshua told His fellow kinsmen that NONE of them keep the Law, and then ASKED "Why go ye about to kill Me?" Eliyahu, DISOBEDIENCE to the Law is how men try to kill Him, and that is only allowed in ignorance. If someone has been enlightened, and tasted of the Heavenly Gift, and then falls away to where they need again to come to repentance, they in affect are putting Yeshua back upon the Cross, and that will not be forgiven.
Come to your senses Eliyahu! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 10:46:35 GMT -5
Ken, oh yes Paul does mention the Heifer in Hebrews 9:13-14, but Yah Messiah the Heifer offered Himself without spot to Elohim, and Paul does NOT write "that we offered Messiah" to Elohim. Read it here. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV#13Shalom Eliyahu, you always are very specific in asking me where Paul states this or that. Show me where Paul specifically states that Yeshua is the Red Heifer. So you can read between the lines and make your OWN private interpretation as to what Paul writes? You shouldn't be such a hypocrite by accusing me of doing what you have just done. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 11:05:20 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: God had given Adam and Eve this knowledge, and Eve tells you so in Genesis 3:3. And do you really believe that men don't really know that they are sinning today either? Shalom Eliyahu, what Tree did they eat from? What happened WHEN they ate from that Tree? Did not they THEN know good and evil just LIKE Elohim? Gen 3:22 And the Yehovah Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:Why do you keep writing things that are not true? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 11:08:07 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: God had given Adam and Eve this knowledge, and Eve tells you so in Genesis 3:3. And do you really believe that men don't really know that they are sinning today either? Shalom Eliyahu, what Tree did they eat from? What happened WHEN they ate from that Tree? Did not they THEN know good and evil just LIKE Elohim? Gen 3:22 And the Yehovah Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:Why do you keep writing things that are not true? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Shalom Eliyahu, I'm sorry as I did not see that it was your reinforcement "Ron" who didn't know what he was talking about. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 14:09:10 GMT -5
Ken, The apostle Paul is very plain in Romans 6:18 and verse 22 as to what he means, Yah Messiah makes us FREE out away from our sins UNTO His justification and righteousness, will ye not believe Paul? Shalom Eliyahu, every pulpit preacher and televangelist claims they understand Paul by believing "Jesus" takes away or makes them free from their sin. But the Truth is, they have NO comprehension as to what Paul means. Yeshua's role in being sent was to TURN us AWAY from all of our iniquities: Act 3:26 Unto you first Elohim, having raised up his Son Yeshua, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.Now, how does it work? What is the catalyst in TURNING away everyone one of you from his iniquities? Peter presents it in the preceding verses: Act 3:12-19 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? (13) The Elohim of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the Elohim of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. (14) But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; (15) And killed the Prince of life, whom Elohim hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. (16) And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by Him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. (17) And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. (18) But those things, which Elohim before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Messiah should suffer, He hath so fulfilled. (19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Master;It's ALL right there Eliyahu. What Peter is telling them APPLIES to us also. It is a confession and repentance from KILLING Yeshua, and THAT is how one is TURNED away from ALL of their iniquities. We all acted in ignorance, but we did it through our sin, and that is what kills Yeshua. It is that confession, in faith, which can result in fulfilling what the Law required of sinners...which is to slay their sin offering. Elohim sent Yeshua to show us how sinning kills. Yeshua told His fellow kinsmen that NONE of them keep the Law, and then ASKED "Why go ye about to kill Me?" Eliyahu, DISOBEDIENCE to the Law is how men try to kill Him, and that is only allowed in ignorance. If someone has been enlightened, and tasted of the Heavenly Gift, and then falls away to where they need again to come to repentance, they in affect are putting Yeshua back upon the Cross, and that will not be forgiven.
Come to your senses Eliyahu! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, it's ye that needs to come to your senses, because Peter did NOT say that quote-""we killed Yeshua the Prince of Life"" and that shows everyone exactly how ye will TWIST/WREST 2 Peter 3:16 the scriptures to fit your own mind's beliefs, and ideas, instead of believing the scriptures as it is written. PS: I don't have any reinforcements as ye say, but Ron is correct, Elohim did give Adam and Eve the knowledge that they would die for sinning.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 14:12:35 GMT -5
Also Ken, Peter said "" Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out "" he did NOT say """that your sins may be TURNED INTO RIGHTEOUSNESS""" either as ye think.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 15:25:50 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, every pulpit preacher and televangelist claims they understand Paul by believing "Jesus" takes away or makes them free from their sin. But the Truth is, they have NO comprehension as to what Paul means. Yeshua's role in being sent was to TURN us AWAY from all of our iniquities: Act 3:26 Unto you FIRST Elohim, having raised up his Son Yeshua, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.Now, how does it work? What is the catalyst in TURNING away everyone one of you from his iniquities? Peter presents it in the preceding verses: Act 3:12-19 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? (13) The Elohim of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the Elohim of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. (14) But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; (15) And killed the Prince of life, whom Elohim hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. (16) And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by Him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. (17) And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. (18) But those things, which Elohim before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Messiah should suffer, He hath so fulfilled. (19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Master;It's ALL right there Eliyahu. What Peter is telling them APPLIES to us also. It is a confession and repentance from KILLING Yeshua, and THAT is how one is TURNED away from ALL of their iniquities. We all acted in ignorance, but we did it through our sin, and that is what kills Yeshua. It is that confession, in faith, which can result in fulfilling what the Law required of sinners...which is to slay their sin offering. Elohim sent Yeshua to show us how sinning kills. Yeshua told His fellow kinsmen that NONE of them keep the Law, and then ASKED "Why go ye about to kill Me?" Eliyahu, DISOBEDIENCE to the Law is how men try to kill Him, and that is only allowed in ignorance. If someone has been enlightened, and tasted of the Heavenly Gift, and then falls away to where they need again to come to repentance, they in affect are putting Yeshua back upon the Cross, and that will not be forgiven.
Come to your senses Eliyahu! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, it's ye that needs to come to your senses, because Peter did NOT say that quote-""we killed Yeshua the Prince of Life"" and that shows everyone exactly how ye will TWIST/WREST 2 Peter 3:16 the scriptures to fit your own mind's beliefs, and ideas, instead of believing the scriptures as it is written. PS: I don't have any reinforcements as ye say, but Ron is correct, Elohim did give Adam and Eve the knowledge that they would die for sinning. Shalom Eliyahu, I wanted to let you know that Spying has sort of followed in your footsteps, in that he has had solar panels placed upon his roof. You might try to contact him and compare notes. Now, Peter's admonishment to those men of Israel set the framework for how man would be turned from all of their iniquities. He accused them of KILLING Yeshua (was he wrong?), and then he told them to repent and be converted. What you need to notice is that THEY were the FIRST to hear this, and now YOU have heard it also. Repent and be converted so that the sins in your life will no longer be active...but rather blotted out from existence as you should TURN from all of your iniquities. Pretty simple isn't it? Here's what I need from you. I need you to stop your craftiness, and your subtle changing of what I have said. First, concerning Paul SPECIFICALLY stating that Yeshua is the Red Heifer, here is what I told you: And you come back in the next post and say this: Do you see your craftiness, you subtle little change? I never stated that Paul did not reference (a) heifer, what I said is that Paul NEVER stated specifically that Messiah was the Red Heifer. This is something that has to be "interpreted." It is not specifically spelled out, yet you keep demanding that everything you oppose has to be very SPECIFICALLY written to the letter before you "say" you can accept it. Why do you accept that Yeshua is the Red Heifer when Paul NEVER specifically stated that He is? Secondly, concerning Adam and Eve...I stated that they DID NOT have a knowledge of good and evil, yet you twist my words to fit your craftiness in saying Elohim gave them the knowledge they would die for sinning. That is not what I said. I said they did not have a knowledge of good and evil. This very evidently shows how little you understand. The Tree they ate from was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and you and Ron have tried to subtely make it appear that they HAD the Knowledge of Good and Evil BEFORE they ate from this Tree. Am I correct in this assessment? Please be humble and admit your error. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 17:46:25 GMT -5
Ken, I'm not being crafty as ye say, a Heifer is a Heifer is a Heifer, no matter what color it is. Paul compares Messiah to the Heifer in Hebrews 9:13-14. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an Heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ/Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God/Elohim, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God/Elohim?www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV&sstr=0And notice Paul didn't say that "we offered or sacrificed Messiah to Elohim". Ye just don't believe Paul's statement here.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 9, 2022 17:56:25 GMT -5
Ken, Those solar panels will save him money on electric costs over time, and he should know where this forum is if he ever wants to talk, he's welcome here the same as ye are.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 20:50:52 GMT -5
Ken, I'm not being crafty as ye say, a Heifer is a Heifer is a Heifer, no matter what color it is. Paul compares Messiah to the Heifer in Hebrews 9:13-14. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an Heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ/Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God/Elohim, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God/Elohim?www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV&sstr=0And notice Paul didn't say that "we offered or sacrificed Messiah to Elohim". Ye just don't believe Paul's statement here. Shalom Eliyahu, Paul does not say specifically that Messiah is the Heifer...case closed. Now, Peter tells us that Messiah was killed, Messiah says that He would be killed. Do you believe Peter and Messiah? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 20:55:22 GMT -5
Ken, I'm not being crafty as ye say, a Heifer is a Heifer is a Heifer, no matter what color it is. Paul compares Messiah to the Heifer in Hebrews 9:13-14. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an Heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ/Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God/Elohim, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God/Elohim?www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV&sstr=0And notice Paul didn't say that "we offered or sacrificed Messiah to Elohim". Ye just don't believe Paul's statement here. Shalom Eliyahu, Paul does not say specifically that Messiah is the Heifer...case closed. Now, Peter tells us that Messiah was killed, Messiah says that He would be killed. Do you believe Peter and Messiah? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Shalom Eliyahu, Paul also says that Yeshua was killed. Do you believe him? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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