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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 9, 2022 21:27:52 GMT -5
Ken, I'm not being crafty as ye say, a Heifer is a Heifer is a Heifer, no matter what color it is. Paul compares Messiah to the Heifer in Hebrews 9:13-14. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an Heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ/Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God/Elohim, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God/Elohim?www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV&sstr=0And notice Paul didn't say that "we offered or sacrificed Messiah to Elohim". Ye just don't believe Paul's statement here. Shalom Eliyahu, I will use YOUR way of NOT being specific. The Apostle Paul uses a Greek word G266 to describe Yeshua as being a "sin offering." This Greek word is used 94 times in the Septuagint where a "sin-offering" is meant. Paul claims that Yeshua was a "sin-offering" for us to accomplish Righteousness. Do you BELIEVE the Apostle Paul? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 10, 2022 18:48:01 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, here is the non-specific evidence from the Apostle Paul. Rom 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin (G266-a sin-offering-94 times in the Septuagint as a sin-offering), condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled BY (G1722) us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2Co 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin (G266-a sin-offering-94 times in the Septuagint as a sin-offering) for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made (G1096 - Accomplish) the righteousness of Elohim in Him.It's very simple Eliyahu, just as you have extracted from Hebrews that Paul was calling Yeshua the Red Heifer, I am also extracting from these two verses the FACT that Yeshua is OUR Sin-Offering which accomplishes or fulfills the Righteousness of the Law concerning what we as sinners should do, which is to SLAY our sin offering and bring it to the DOOR of the Tabernacle (our mouths) and confess what we have done, BY SINNING. See how simple it is when you don't have to get it stated SPECIFICALLY that Paul called Yeshua the Red Heifer? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 12, 2022 9:37:46 GMT -5
Ken, I'm not being crafty as ye say, a Heifer is a Heifer is a Heifer, no matter what color it is. Paul compares Messiah to the Heifer in Hebrews 9:13-14. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an Heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ/Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God/Elohim, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God/Elohim?www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV&sstr=0And notice Paul didn't say that "we offered or sacrificed Messiah to Elohim". Ye just don't believe Paul's statement here. Shalom Eliyahu, Paul does not say specifically that Messiah is the Heifer...case closed. Now, Peter tells us that Messiah was killed, Messiah says that He would be killed. Do you believe Peter and Messiah? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew Ken, sorry to be late in replying, but the apostle Paul in Hebrews 9:13 re-quotes this from Numbers 19, and compares Yah Messiah to the red Heifer, Numbers 19:2, see below. See here. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=the+ashes+of+an+Heifer&t=KJV
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 12, 2022 9:55:48 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, here is the non-specific evidence from the Apostle Paul. Rom 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin (G266-a sin-offering-94 times in the Septuagint as a sin-offering), condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled BY (G1722) us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2Co 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin (G266-a sin-offering-94 times in the Septuagint as a sin-offering) for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made (G1096 - Accomplish) the righteousness of Elohim in Him.It's very simple Eliyahu, just as you have extracted from Hebrews that Paul was calling Yeshua the Red Heifer, I am also extracting from these two verses the FACT that Yeshua is OUR Sin-Offering which accomplishes or fulfills the Righteousness of the Law concerning what we as sinners should do, which is to SLAY our sin offering and bring it to the DOOR of the Tabernacle (our mouths) and confess what we have done, BY SINNING. See how simple it is when you don't have to get it stated SPECIFICALLY that Paul called Yeshua the Red Heifer? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, however, these verses that you quoted above DO NOT say, ""that we sacrificed Messiah"" but Paul was very specific in writing this TWICE "" How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"" Hebrews 9:14. Also For then must he/Messiah often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he/Messiah appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:26. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV#13Only the HIGH PRIEST was allowed into the Most Holy of Holies. And only Yah Messiah the Living Melchesidic is allowed in the Most Holy Place in the Heavenly Office. And this is WHY I asked ye this question before. How could you offer up YOUR OWN SINS in the Most Holy Place in Heaven without Messiah doing it for you?? Yea just how and when did you do this?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 12, 2022 10:05:57 GMT -5
Ken,
I'm going to give a written exposition or expounding of Romans 5:14-21.
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Post by Ron on Jan 12, 2022 17:28:45 GMT -5
ImAHebrew you wrote: Would you mind telling us where we are told in the scriptures to have faith in the free gift of righteousness? I thought that we are told to have faith in and of Christ?
Ron.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 12, 2022 17:50:25 GMT -5
Ron, that's a very good point and observation.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 13, 2022 8:20:05 GMT -5
ImAHebrew you wrote: Would you mind telling us where we are told in the scriptures to have faith in the free gift of righteousness? I thought that we are told to have faith in and of Christ? Ron. Shalom Ron, I'll answer your question if you first tell me what you mean "to have faith in and of Christ?" Exactly, what does that mean, and maybe if you give the correct answer, I won't have to give you an answer. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImHebrew on Jan 13, 2022 8:27:35 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, here is the non-specific evidence from the Apostle Paul. Rom 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin (G266-a sin-offering-94 times in the Septuagint as a sin-offering), condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled BY (G1722) us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2Co 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin (G266-a sin-offering-94 times in the Septuagint as a sin-offering) for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made (G1096 - Accomplish) the righteousness of Elohim in Him.It's very simple Eliyahu, just as you have extracted from Hebrews that Paul was calling Yeshua the Red Heifer, I am also extracting from these two verses the FACT that Yeshua is OUR Sin-Offering which accomplishes or fulfills the Righteousness of the Law concerning what we as sinners should do, which is to SLAY our sin offering and bring it to the DOOR of the Tabernacle (our mouths) and confess what we have done, BY SINNING. See how simple it is when you don't have to get it stated SPECIFICALLY that Paul called Yeshua the Red Heifer? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, however, these verses that you quoted above DO NOT say, ""that we sacrificed Messiah"" but Paul was very specific in writing this TWICE "" How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"" Hebrews 9:14. Also For then must he/Messiah often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he/Messiah appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:26. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV#13Only the HIGH PRIEST was allowed into the Most Holy of Holies. And only Yah Messiah the Living Melchesidic is allowed in the Most Holy Place in the Heavenly Office. And this is WHY I asked ye this question before. How could you offer up YOUR OWN SINS in the Most Holy Place in Heaven without Messiah doing it for you?? Yea just how and when did you do this? Shalom Eliyahu, there is one major thing you have overlooked. The Apostle Paul taught that Yeshua suffered and died ACCORDING to the Scriptures. Please show me a Scripture from the Law which requires the offering to sacrifice itself. Think along these lines. How many times have you heard that a soldier sacrificed themselves? Did they put a gun to their own head and pull the trigger? No, they willingly put their life in jeopardy for the sake of others, but it was the enemy that caused their death and sacrifice. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Jan 13, 2022 14:34:04 GMT -5
ImAHebrew you wrote: Would you mind telling us where we are told in the scriptures to have faith in the free gift of righteousness? I thought that we are told to have faith in and of Christ? Ron. Shalom Ron, I'll answer your question if you first tell me what you mean "to have faith in and of Christ?" Exactly, what does that mean, and maybe if you give the correct answer, I won't have to give you an answer. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: Take your pick here in the Blue Letter Bible for what it means www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=faith+of+Christ&t=KJV However, your statement above is nowhere to be found in the scriptures.
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Post by Ron on Jan 13, 2022 15:08:19 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: I'm afraid that you speak words out of your own heart that cannot be found in word of God as this text tells us of the latter days. Jer.23:16, 20. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD....The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 13, 2022 17:38:51 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, I'll answer your question if you first tell me what you mean "to have faith in and of Christ?" Exactly, what does that mean, and maybe if you give the correct answer, I won't have to give you an answer. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: Take your pick here in the Blue Letter Bible for what it means www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=faith+of+Christ&t=KJV However, your statement above is nowhere to be found in the scriptures. Shalom Ron, it gladdens my heart that you agree with me and the Apostle Paul by quoting those verses. Thank you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 13, 2022 17:40:32 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: I'm afraid that you speak words out of your own heart that cannot be found in word of God as this text tells us of the latter days. Jer.23:16, 20. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD....The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly. Shalom Ron, I'm only speaking the same words that you had quoted from the Apostle Paul. Obviously, it is from my heart that I do speak the Truth. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 14, 2022 7:19:22 GMT -5
Ken, however, these verses that you quoted above DO NOT say, ""that we sacrificed Messiah"" but Paul was very specific in writing this TWICE "" How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"" Hebrews 9:14. Also For then must he/Messiah often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he/Messiah appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:26. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV#13Only the HIGH PRIEST was allowed into the Most Holy of Holies. And only Yah Messiah the Living Melchesidic is allowed in the Most Holy Place in the Heavenly Office. And this is WHY I asked ye this question before. How could you offer up YOUR OWN SINS in the Most Holy Place in Heaven without Messiah doing it for you?? Yea just how and when did you do this? Shalom Eliyahu, there is one major thing you have overlooked. The Apostle Paul taught that Yeshua suffered and died ACCORDING to the Scriptures. Please show me a Scripture from the Law which requires the offering to sacrifice itself. Think along these lines. How many times have you heard that a soldier sacrificed themselves? Did they put a gun to their own head and pull the trigger? No, they willingly put their life in jeopardy for the sake of others, but it was the enemy that caused their death and sacrifice. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, I've not overlooked anything, because it was not I that wrote these texts in the book of Hebrews, it was thee apostle Paul that wrote these words, and ye ignored the question above that I asked, because neither you nor traditional Christians today know nor understand this above that I wrote.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 14, 2022 13:36:17 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, there is one major thing you have overlooked. The Apostle Paul taught that Yeshua suffered and died ACCORDING to the Scriptures. Please show me a Scripture from the Law which requires the offering to sacrifice itself. Think along these lines. How many times have you heard that a soldier sacrificed themselves? Did they put a gun to their own head and pull the trigger? No, they willingly put their life in jeopardy for the sake of others, but it was the enemy that caused their death and sacrifice. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, I've not overlooked anything, because it was not I that wrote these texts in the book of Hebrews, it was thee apostle Paul that wrote these words, and ye ignored the question above that I asked, because neither you nor traditional Christians today know nor understand this above that I wrote. Shalom Eliyahu, yes you have (no where in the Law does it require an offering to sacrifice itself, ONLY the sinner was to sacrifice the offering). Here again, you are in lock step with how Judaism and Traditional Christianity views sacrifice. Here are quotes from each: Jewish Virtual Library - important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer.BibleTools.org - A primary factor in Jesus' death is that it was substitutionary. For each sin we commit, we earn the death penalty. This penalty cannot be paid by dying a natural death of old age, by accident, or by disease, for this is the way everyone dies as a matter of course...Sin cannot be forgiven until someone pours out his blood to cover the transgression.In your questions above you show your true colors. You are THINKING just like the Jewish kinsmen of Paul and ALL of traditional christianity. You all think that blood needs to be used to "take care" of your sins...the PENALTY of your sins. The only way you think you can be "forgiven" of your sins, is to have blood taken into the Holy Place, and that is delusional thinking. The ONLY offering up of my sins that is required of me, is the TURNING AWAY from them, and that allows me to be SEATED with Messiah in Heavenly Places (Eph 2:6) (which apparently you have never done), and which also allows me to ENTER into the Holy of Holies BY the blood of Yeshua (Heb 10:19) (again, which apparently you have never done). It's not about using the shed blood of Yeshua to take away the "penalty" of your sin, rather it is using the shed blood of Yeshua to TURN you AWAY FROM your sin, and THEN rising UP into His LIFE (His Blood) and entering IN with Him (by that LIFE or BLOOD) to places ONLY reserved for the High Priest.
We have been debating this for years Eliyahu, when are you going to come to your senses? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Jan 14, 2022 15:15:10 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, it gladdens my heart that you agree with me and the Apostle Paul by quoting those verses. Thank you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: If that were really true then I would not have mentioned or asked you to show us where your own words were written in the scriptures but you didn't show us because your words are not found in them.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 14, 2022 16:13:45 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, it gladdens my heart that you agree with me and the Apostle Paul by quoting those verses. Thank you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: If that were really true then I would not have mentioned or asked you to show us where your own words were written in the scriptures but you didn't show us because your words are not found in them. Shalom Ron, well, you didn't read those verses very closely. First, I wrote, which you quoted: " results in the salvation by and through our FAITH in the Free Gift of Righteousness," and then you ask, " Would you mind telling us where we are told in the scriptures to have faith in the free gift of righteousness?" Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Messiah down [from above]
And here's a few that you didn't quote:
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.Ron, Abram BELIEVED Elohim BY faith, and a free gift of Righteousness was IMPUTED to him. You have to believe and have faith in the Free Gift that is promised, and that results in Righteousness. Paul is saying what I said, and you can continue to deny it, or rather, you can have FAITH and BELIEVE in the Free Gift of Righteousness that comes to us as a result of BEING sinners. All of Elohim's commands are Righteousness, and BY Faith in Yeshua BEING YOUR sin offering, you can be credited with FULFILLING what the Law commanded of you to do for YOUR sin, which is SLAY your sin offering Yeshua. You can ONLY strike the Rock ONCE for the Water of Life to FLOW into you through that Righteousness that comes BY Faith. Hope this helps you Ron. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Jan 14, 2022 16:21:19 GMT -5
Ken, I've not overlooked anything, because it was not I that wrote these texts in the book of Hebrews, it was thee apostle Paul that wrote these words, and ye ignored the question above that I asked, because neither you nor traditional Christians today know nor understand this above that I wrote. Shalom Eliyahu, yes you have (no where in the Law does it require an offering to sacrifice itself, ONLY the sinner was to sacrifice the offering). Here again, you are in lock step with how Judaism and Traditional Christianity views sacrifice. Here are quotes from each: Jewish Virtual Library - important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer.BibleTools.org - A primary factor in Jesus' death is that it was substitutionary. For each sin we commit, we earn the death penalty. This penalty cannot be paid by dying a natural death of old age, by accident, or by disease, for this is the way everyone dies as a matter of course...Sin cannot be forgiven until someone pours out his blood to cover the transgression.In your questions above you show your true colors. You are THINKING just like the Jewish kinsmen of Paul and ALL of traditional christianity. You all think that blood needs to be used to "take care" of your sins...the PENALTY of your sins. The only way you think you can be "forgiven" of your sins, is to have blood taken into the Holy Place, and that is delusional thinking. The ONLY offering up of my sins that is required of me, is the TURNING AWAY from them, and that allows me to be SEATED with Messiah in Heavenly Places (Eph 2:6) (which apparently you have never done), and which also allows me to ENTER into the Holy of Holies BY the blood of Yeshua (Heb 10:19) (again, which apparently you have never done). It's not about using the shed blood of Yeshua to take away the "penalty" of your sin, rather it is using the shed blood of Yeshua to TURN you AWAY FROM your sin, and THEN rising UP into His LIFE (His Blood) and entering IN with Him (by that LIFE or BLOOD) to places ONLY reserved for the High Priest.
We have been debating this for years Eliyahu, when are you going to come to your senses? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: These texts Eph.2:6, and Heb.10:19 that you gave above is speaking about AFTER the fact of Christs' first ascension into Heaven on the third day, and you ignore the previous two verses BEFORE in Hebrews 10:17-18 There is no more offerings for sin as this texts tells us but your hell bent that others sacrifice Christ according to your doctrinal ideas.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 14, 2022 16:32:01 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, yes you have (no where in the Law does it require an offering to sacrifice itself, ONLY the sinner was to sacrifice the offering). Here again, you are in lock step with how Judaism and Traditional Christianity views sacrifice. Here are quotes from each: Jewish Virtual Library - important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer.BibleTools.org - A primary factor in Jesus' death is that it was substitutionary. For each sin we commit, we earn the death penalty. This penalty cannot be paid by dying a natural death of old age, by accident, or by disease, for this is the way everyone dies as a matter of course...Sin cannot be forgiven until someone pours out his blood to cover the transgression.In your questions above you show your true colors. You are THINKING just like the Jewish kinsmen of Paul and ALL of traditional christianity. You all think that blood needs to be used to "take care" of your sins...the PENALTY of your sins. The only way you think you can be "forgiven" of your sins, is to have blood taken into the Holy Place, and that is delusional thinking. The ONLY offering up of my sins that is required of me, is the TURNING AWAY from them, and that allows me to be SEATED with Messiah in Heavenly Places (Eph 2:6) (which apparently you have never done), and which also allows me to ENTER into the Holy of Holies BY the blood of Yeshua (Heb 10:19) (again, which apparently you have never done). It's not about using the shed blood of Yeshua to take away the "penalty" of your sin, rather it is using the shed blood of Yeshua to TURN you AWAY FROM your sin, and THEN rising UP into His LIFE (His Blood) and entering IN with Him (by that LIFE or BLOOD) to places ONLY reserved for the High Priest.
We have been debating this for years Eliyahu, when are you going to come to your senses? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: These texts Eph.2:6, and Heb.10:19 that you gave above is speaking about AFTER the fact of Christs' first ascension into Heaven on the third day, and you ignore the previous two verses BEFORE in Hebrews 10:17-18 There is no more offerings for sin as this texts tells us but your hell bent that others sacrifice Christ according to your doctrinal ideas. Shalom Ron, Paul was very familiar with the Scriptures, and the Scriptures state and IF a wicked man TURNS from his iniquities, NONE of his former sins will be remembered. So if sins are not remembered, there is no more offerings for sin, or at least a need to do so. It is ONLY those who have sinned IN IGNORANCE (not KNOWING that their sin was slaying Messiah) that requires a Sin Offering which results in fulfilling Righteousness (DOING the Law Spiritually, not BY WORKS). You think the Sin Offering had to slay itself, yet NO where in the Scriptures, which the Messiah suffered and died according to, REQUIRED this. Come to your senses Ron. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Jan 14, 2022 16:41:12 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: If that were really true then I would not have mentioned or asked you to show us where your own words were written in the scriptures but you didn't show us because your words are not found in them. Shalom Ron, well, you didn't read those verses very closely. First, I wrote, which you quoted: " results in the salvation by and through our FAITH in the Free Gift of Righteousness," and then you ask, " Would you mind telling us where we are told in the scriptures to have faith in the free gift of righteousness?" Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Messiah down [from above]
And here's a few that you didn't quote:
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.Ron, Abram BELIEVED Elohim BY faith, and a free gift of Righteousness was IMPUTED to him. You have to believe and have faith in the Free Gift that is promised, and that results in Righteousness. Paul is saying what I said, and you can continue to deny it, or rather, you can have FAITH and BELIEVE in the Free Gift of Righteousness that comes to us as a result of BEING sinners. All of Elohim's commands are Righteousness, and BY Faith in Yeshua BEING YOUR sin offering, you can be credited with FULFILLING what the Law commanded of you to do for YOUR sin, which is SLAY your sin offering Yeshua. You can ONLY strike the Rock ONCE for the Water of Life to FLOW into you through that Righteousness that comes BY Faith. Hope this helps you Ron. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.ImAHebrew: All of these texts Romans 4:3, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23 says Abraham BELIEVED God, the texts do not say that Abraham believed or had faith in the free gift of righteousness as you did write. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?criteria=Abraham+believed+God&sstr=0&t=KJV You simply cannot and will not admit to your error even when it's shown to you by the texts of the scriptures itself.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 14, 2022 16:59:55 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, well, you didn't read those verses very closely. First, I wrote, which you quoted: " results in the salvation by and through our FAITH in the Free Gift of Righteousness," and then you ask, " Would you mind telling us where we are told in the scriptures to have faith in the free gift of righteousness?" Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Messiah down [from above]
And here's a few that you didn't quote:
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.Ron, Abram BELIEVED Elohim BY faith, and a free gift of Righteousness was IMPUTED to him. You have to believe and have faith in the Free Gift that is promised, and that results in Righteousness. Paul is saying what I said, and you can continue to deny it, or rather, you can have FAITH and BELIEVE in the Free Gift of Righteousness that comes to us as a result of BEING sinners. All of Elohim's commands are Righteousness, and BY Faith in Yeshua BEING YOUR sin offering, you can be credited with FULFILLING what the Law commanded of you to do for YOUR sin, which is SLAY your sin offering Yeshua. You can ONLY strike the Rock ONCE for the Water of Life to FLOW into you through that Righteousness that comes BY Faith. Hope this helps you Ron. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.ImAHebrew: All of these texts Romans 4:3, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23 says Abraham BELIEVED God, the texts do not say that Abraham believed or had faith in the free gift of righteousness as you did write. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?criteria=Abraham+believed+God&sstr=0&t=KJV You simply cannot and will not admit to your error even when it's shown to you by the texts of the scriptures itself. Shalom Ron, believing and having faith are synonymous. The FAITH of Abram resulted in him being CREDITED with Righteousness. Now, do you DENY the Free Gift of Righteousness that we receive by FAITH? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Jan 14, 2022 17:23:41 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: I already knew that believing and having faith are synonymous. But, here following is as you wrote I have faith or believe God and Christ as Abraham did to receive the imputed free gift of righteousness. The texts say that Abraham BELIEVED God not your words. Why can't you admit your error?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 14, 2022 17:33:34 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: I already knew that believing and having faith are synonymous. But, here following is as you wrote I have faith or believe God and Christ as Abraham did to receive the imputed free gift of righteousness. The texts say that Abraham BELIEVED God not your words. Why can't you admit your error? Hey Ron, Ken misquoting scriptures is the name of his game as the first time that ye encountered him and pointing out his error, it gets to be funny after a while.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 15, 2022 8:36:34 GMT -5
Ken, I've not overlooked anything, because it was not I that wrote these texts in the book of Hebrews, it was thee apostle Paul that wrote these words, and ye ignored the question above that I asked, because neither you nor traditional Christians today know nor understand this above that I wrote. Shalom Eliyahu, yes you have (no where in the Law does it require an offering to sacrifice itself, ONLY the sinner was to sacrifice the offering). Here again, you are in lock step with how Judaism and Traditional Christianity views sacrifice. Here are quotes from each: Jewish Virtual Library - important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer.BibleTools.org - A primary factor in Jesus' death is that it was substitutionary. For each sin we commit, we earn the death penalty. This penalty cannot be paid by dying a natural death of old age, by accident, or by disease, for this is the way everyone dies as a matter of course...Sin cannot be forgiven until someone pours out his blood to cover the transgression.In your questions above you show your true colors. You are THINKING just like the Jewish kinsmen of Paul and ALL of traditional christianity. You all think that blood needs to be used to "take care" of your sins...the PENALTY of your sins. The only way you think you can be "forgiven" of your sins, is to have blood taken into the Holy Place, and that is delusional thinking. The ONLY offering up of my sins that is required of me, is the TURNING AWAY from them, and that allows me to be SEATED with Messiah in Heavenly Places (Eph 2:6) (which apparently you have never done), and which also allows me to ENTER into the Holy of Holies BY the blood of Yeshua (Heb 10:19) (again, which apparently you have never done). It's not about using the shed blood of Yeshua to take away the "penalty" of your sin, rather it is using the shed blood of Yeshua to TURN you AWAY FROM your sin, and THEN rising UP into His LIFE (His Blood) and entering IN with Him (by that LIFE or BLOOD) to places ONLY reserved for the High Priest.
We have been debating this for years Eliyahu, when are you going to come to your senses? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, ye may have been debating for years, but I merely re-quote the scriptures as they are written. Like these texts by Paul. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us....
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:...Nor yet that he/Messiah should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself....
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation Hebrews 9:11-28. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&v=12&t=KJV&sstr=0So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;Ye see Ken, I didn't originally write these texts above, the apostle Paul did, and the apostle Peter also agrees with Paul here. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:...Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:21-24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree,www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Pe&c=2&v=24&t=KJV#24
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 15, 2022 8:56:27 GMT -5
Ken, ye wrote. Really? Was the apostle Paul delusional too? Well these texts by Paul contradicts you. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, G39 having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:12. For Christ is not entered into the holy places G39 made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hebrews 9:24. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G39&t=KJV
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Post by ImAHebrew on Jan 15, 2022 9:38:36 GMT -5
Ken, ye wrote. Really? Was the apostle Paul delusional too? Well these texts by Paul contradicts you. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, G39 having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:12. For Christ is not entered into the holy places G39 made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hebrews 9:24. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G39&t=KJVEliyahu, I'm done with you again. You have ZERO understanding of The Apostle Paul. I put the word "forgiven" in quotes, for that is what you and all of DECEIVED and DELUSIONAL christianity believe concerning how YOUR "god" uses blood to grant "forgiveness." Granting forgiveness is EASY, it doesn't take buckets of blood or just a little bit of blood, it takes someone being ETERNALLY redeemed FROM being an active sinner. The Angels in Heaven REJOICE when a sinner is REDEEMED FROM their sin, and Yeshua came allowing us to SHED His blood, to obtain Eternal Redemption FROM sin, for EVERYONE that will BELIEVE and have FAITH they DID shed His Innocent Blood. The shedding of Innocent Blood is an abomination, and when you come to your senses, you will KNOW why. Good-bye
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 15, 2022 9:48:18 GMT -5
Ken, ye wrote. Really? Was the apostle Paul delusional too? Well these texts by Paul contradicts you. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, G39 having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:12. For Christ is not entered into the holy places G39 made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Hebrews 9:24. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G39&t=KJVEliyahu, I'm done with you again. You have ZERO understanding of The Apostle Paul. I put the word "forgiven" in quotes, for that is what you and all of DECEIVED and DELUSIONAL christianity believe concerning how YOUR "god" uses blood to grant "forgiveness." Granting forgiveness is EASY, it doesn't take buckets of blood or just a little bit of blood, it takes someone being ETERNALLY redeemed FROM being an active sinner. The Angels in Heaven REJOICE when a sinner is REDEEMED FROM their sin, and Yeshua came allowing us to SHED His blood, to obtain Eternal Redemption FROM sin, for EVERYONE that will BELIEVE and have FAITH they DID shed His Innocent Blood. The shedding of Innocent Blood is an abomination, and when you come to your senses, you will KNOW why. Good-bye Ken, I understand the apostle Paul very well, because we have redemption and forgiveness from our past sins through Messiah's blood as Paul taught in all of these texts ABOVE and below. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 3:25. And all of these other texts too. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?criteria=his+blood&sstr=1&t=KJV
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 15, 2022 9:50:09 GMT -5
Ken, you want me to believe YOU over the apostle Paul, and that ain't happening.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 15, 2022 9:56:01 GMT -5
Ken,
The apostle Paul tells us that He-Messiah entered ONCE into the Holy of Holies with His own blood having eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:12
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 15, 2022 10:02:13 GMT -5
Ken,
Only the HIGH PRIEST was allowed into the Most Holy Place in the earthly tabernacle, and Yah Messiah is Melchesidic the HIGH PRIEST in the Heavenly Most Holy Place that He entered on the 3rd day of His resurrection.
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