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Post by Eliyahu C. on Jan 17, 2022 10:38:46 GMT -5
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 12, 2022 12:37:27 GMT -5
Ken, Ye wrote on Lo-Ammi First, No, that's not quite true according to the scriptures, and other should think along these lines according to the scriptures, through Yah Messiah's blood is far more than ye portray above, and why did ye NOT re-quote these following texts by the apostle Peter and Paul? The apostle Peter. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 3:19. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Act&c=3&v=1&t=KJV&sstr=0Our past sins are blotted out-gone. The apostle Paul. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:7; See also Colossians 1:14. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G629&t=KJVHere is the Strong's meaning of G 859="forgiveness" used in these verses. ἄφεσις áphesis, af'-es-is; from G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon:—deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G859&t=KJVHere is Strong's G 629="redemption' meaning used in these verses. ἀπολύτρωσις apolýtrōsis, ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis; from a compound of G575 and G3083; (the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation:—deliverance, redemption. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G629&t=KJVKen, you also quote the apostle John, but ye leave OUT what the apostle John wrote here below. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?criteria=taketh+away+sin&sstr=0&t=KJVAnd ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 1 John 3:5. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=take+away+our+sins&t=KJVI'm sorry Ken, but Yah Messiah and His blood forgives, blots out, and takes away our past sins, they don't merely go into remission as these texts reveal. So tell me Ken, did Yahushua Messiah carry or bear your own sins in His own body on the Cross? A yes or no is sufficient.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 12, 2022 14:11:32 GMT -5
Ken, ye also quoted Luke 5:21-24. Here is your answer. When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias/Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses. Matthew 8:16-17. This is re-quoted from Isaiah 53:4-5Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=53&v=1&t=KJV&sstr=0This chapter in Isaiah 53 is the same scriptures that Philip preached or taught the Ethiopian eunuch of Yahushua Messiah, that he had gotten in Jerusalem in Acts 8:26-38 compare it above, there are many new testament scriptures that are re-quoted from Isaiah 53, ye either believe them or ye don't. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Act&c=8&t=KJV&sstr=0
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Post by Ron on Feb 13, 2022 10:29:53 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: You wrote. Was Adam a dumb robot not knowing anything? Adam had knowledge of good from God and this is evident also in Genesis 2 when he named the animals, and this you do not want to accept because it will disprove your ideas about Adam before he fell by sinning.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 13, 2022 14:19:35 GMT -5
Ken, ye also quoted Luke 5:21-24. Here is your answer. When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias/Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses. Matthew 8:16-17. This is re-quoted from Isaiah 53:4-5Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=53&v=1&t=KJV&sstr=0This chapter in Isaiah 53 is the same scriptures that Philip preached or taught the Ethiopian eunuch of Yahushua Messiah, that he had gotten in Jerusalem in Acts 8:26-38 compare it above, there are many new testament scriptures that are re-quoted from Isaiah 53, ye either believe them or ye don't. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Act&c=8&t=KJV&sstr=0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here are more new testament texts referring to Yah Messiah and re-quoting from Isaiah 53:12. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors. Mark 15:27-28. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=numbered+with+the+transgressors&t=KJVThe apostle Paul. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God/Elohim by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:25. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=intercession&t=KJVSo Christ/Messiah was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:28. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&v=28&t=KJV#28Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?criteria=stripes+healed&sstr=0&t=KJVIn this text above the apostle Peter re-quotes Isaiah 53:5 and 12 together, and here are a cloud of witnesses if ye try to deny this truth. Will ye believe Messiah Himself? For this is my blood of the new testament/covenant, which is shed for many for the remission/forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:28. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=26&t=KJV#28
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 15, 2022 12:16:40 GMT -5
Ken, ye wrote again on Lo-Ammi, Ken, why do ye lie about me? I never wrote nor said that Yah Messiah does NOT take away our sins, because He surely does as that is WHY I re-quoted all of these texts ABOVE to you. However, ye seem to DENY, and are afraid to death of all these texts above and below which says that through Yah Messiah that our sins are forgiven. Here is Yah Messiah Himself saying this. For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission/forgiveness G859 of sins. Matthew 26:28. Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission/forgiveness G859 of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:47. Here is the apostle Peter/Kepha saying this. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission/forgiveness G859 of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness G859 of sins. Acts 5:31. Here is the apostle Paul. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness G859 of sins: Acts 13:38. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness G859 of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14. Here are all of these texts for ye to read for yourself. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfmStrongs=G859&t=KJV&sstr=0 Ye asked this question. Yes we repent of our sins and be converted, so that our sins are FORGIVEN and blotted out by and through the shed blood of Messiah Yahushua. I don't deny the texts that ye gave above, yes we are to stop and turn away from our sins, and why won't you believe and acknowledge these texts above that I gave? Come let us reason together, because ye have barred me from Lo-Ammi because I believed the apostle Paul over Spying's own ideas, and please answer this question too. So tell me Ken, did Yahushua Messiah carry or bear your own sins in His own body on the Cross? A yes or no is sufficient.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 15, 2022 16:25:46 GMT -5
Ken, The whole chapter of Isaiah 53 is referring to Messiah. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD/Yahuwah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all....
Yet it pleased the LORD/Yahuwah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD/Yahuwah shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.....
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=53&v=1&t=KJVThe apostle Paul wrote. So Christ/Messiah was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:28. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=sins+of+many&t=KJVThe apostle Peter wrote this of Messiah. Who/Messiah his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=bare+our+sins&t=KJVSo tell me Ken, did Yahushua Messiah carry or bear your own sins in His own body on the Cross? A yes or no is sufficient.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 20, 2022 11:06:15 GMT -5
Ken, Ken, if ye are done with me again, then why are ye responding to me on Lo-Ammi, and are ye still not corresponding with me? It's a little childish don't ye think? Does Elohim perform TRICKS now? You should look at google search of the word "trick" and what it means before ye attribute such a thing to Yah Elohim. www.google.com/search?client=avast-a-1&q=trick&oq=trick&aqs=avast..69i64.16j0j1&ie=UTF-8All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD/Yahuwah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6. Ken, who laid on Him - Messiah the iniquity or sins of us all according to Isaiah 53:6 above? Ken, ye wrote, Where are we told this in Isaiah 53, or anywhere in the scriptures? And lastly Ken, can ye tell us what these two words "propitiation G2435" "propitiation G2434" mean in these three verses of the N.T. scriptures below? www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?criteria=propitiation&sstr=1&t=KJVKen, why not come here and talk with me of these matters.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 22, 2022 7:41:12 GMT -5
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 22, 2022 10:02:20 GMT -5
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 26, 2022 15:49:09 GMT -5
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 26, 2022 17:02:17 GMT -5
Correction Ken, Your words above are in direct CONTRADICTION/OPPOSITION to the apostle Paul's written words below. And walk in love, as Christ/Messiah also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice G2378 to God/Elohim for a sweetsmelling savour. Ephesians 5:2. Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, G2378 first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he/Yah Messiah did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 7:27. For then must he/Messiah often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he/Messiah appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice/G2378 of himself. Hebrews 9:26. But this man/Yah Messiah, after he had offered one sacrifice G2378 for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God/Elohim; Hebrews 10:12. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2378&t=KJVKen, doesn't it bother ye at all that your in total contradiction to the apostle Paul's written words, and do ye not have any respect for the scriptures at all? REPENT!
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 2, 2022 16:26:15 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, I would love to come back and have deceit discussions with you but it is always a dead end. You refuse to explain anything, and you take Scriptures to mean something other than was intended. An example: The Sacrifices were to be killed and performed BY the person who was following the details/requirements of the various sacrifices found in the Law. No where in the Law is the sacrifice required to sacrifice itself. Your mindset would require the young pure virgin being sacrificed to the volcano g-d, that she would have to throw herself into the volcano so that you could take advantage of her sacrificing herself for you?? You just don't get it. Yeshua sacrificed Himself by willingly allowing ALL sinners to KILL Him, and ALL sinners can CLAIM, THROUGH FAITH that Yeshua is THEIR offering. Until you confess that, you will not be saved from your sin. So, let me know when you can start explaining FULLY what the Scriptures are expounding, instead of just quoting one Scripture after another out of context. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
P.S. Also, we are told that IF a wicked man TURNS from all of his iniquities, none of his former sins would be remembered...those sins would be atoned for or covered over or blotted out. It is the TURNING away FROM sin that atones for and covers sin. But it is ONLY by you recognizing that YOUR sins slaughtered Yeshua, shedding His precious blood, that you can even begin to TURN AWAY from all of your iniquities....so in essence, His shed blood brings about the atonement. James speaks about what COVERS sin:
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.
Turning the sinner FROM the error of his way COVERS or ATONES for a multitude of sins, and it doesn't take a "blood thirsty" deity requiring that the Righteous and the Innocent sacrifice themselves in the place of the wicked.
Ex 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
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Post by Ron on Mar 3, 2022 7:41:44 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: You talk about deceit discussions when you can't even admit to a simple mistake that you've made.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 3, 2022 10:00:30 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, I would love to come back and have deceit discussions with you but it is always a dead end. You refuse to explain anything, and you take Scriptures to mean something other than was intended. An example: The Sacrifices were to be killed and performed BY the person who was following the details/requirements of the various sacrifices found in the Law. No where in the Law is the sacrifice required to sacrifice itself. Your mindset would require the young pure virgin being sacrificed to the volcano g-d, that she would have to throw herself into the volcano so that you could take advantage of her sacrificing herself for you?? You just don't get it. Yeshua sacrificed Himself by willingly allowing ALL sinners to KILL Him, and ALL sinners can CLAIM, THROUGH FAITH that Yeshua is THEIR offering. Until you confess that, you will not be saved from your sin. So, let me know when you can start explaining FULLY what the Scriptures are expounding, instead of just quoting one Scripture after another out of context. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Also, we are told that IF a wicked man TURNS from all of his iniquities, none of his former sins would be remembered...those sins would be atoned for or covered over or blotted out. It is the TURNING away FROM sin that atones for and covers sin. But it is ONLY by you recognizing that YOUR sins slaughtered Yeshua, shedding His precious blood, that you can even begin to TURN AWAY from all of your iniquities....so in essence, His shed blood brings about the atonement. James speaks about what COVERS sin: Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins. Turning the sinner FROM the error of his way COVERS or ATONES for a multitude of sins, and it doesn't take a "blood thirsty" deity requiring that the Righteous and the Innocent sacrifice themselves in the place of the wicked. Ex 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked. Ken, Please don't falsely accuse me of the very thing that ye do, and the apostle Paul's written words explain themselves in Paul's own words, and they don't need your false additions and twisting done to them either. The apostle Paul himself condemns your twisting to his words in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 and 3, and so does the apostle Peter in 2nd Peter 3:15-16, and so does Yah Himself in Jeremiah 23:28, and then ye quote Exodus 23:7 about keeping yourself far from a false matter, ye sure don't respect the Almighty and His word very much. Paul is the person who wrote the words in my post above, he writes what he says, and he means what he says and writes, or is Paul some dummy that he needs another dummy to explain his own words? www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=wrest&t=KJVwww.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=speak+my+word&t=KJVwww.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Th&c=3&v=1&t=KJV
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 3, 2022 14:22:12 GMT -5
Correction Ken, Your words above are in direct CONTRADICTION/OPPOSITION to the apostle Paul's written words below. And walk in love, as Christ/Messiah also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice G2378 to God/Elohim for a sweetsmelling savour. Ephesians 5:2. Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, G2378 first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he/Yah Messiah did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 7:27. For then must he/Messiah often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he/Messiah appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice/G2378 of himself. Hebrews 9:26. But this man/Yah Messiah, after he had offered one sacrifice G2378 for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God/Elohim; Hebrews 10:12. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2378&t=KJVKen, doesn't it bother ye at all that your in total contradiction to the apostle Paul's written words, and do ye not have any respect for the scriptures at all? REPENT! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken, I didn't quote Paul's words out of context, ye can falsely accuse all ye want, I re-quoted his words verbatim as he wrote them in his own context, and your written words " Christ did not sacrifice himself.) (KJV)" contradict Paul's written words above, and it looks as if your not going to admit to your error, and this reveals your dishonesty with the texts that everyone should take note.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 5, 2022 10:07:32 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Ron, I thought I might respond to your false and misinformed accusations against me. You posted these:
Why should I admit to something that is NOT an error or a mistake? Roms 4:3 states "Abraham believed Elohim, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Roms 4:9 (CBJ) states correctly, "Avraham's trust (faith) was credited to his account as righteousness." And finally, where Paul tells us the PROMISE (Free Gift) was THROUGH the righteousness of FAITH, and that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you all along. Rom 4:13 states "For the PROMISE, that he should be heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the Law, but THROUGH the RIGHTEOUSNESS of FAITH."
Now Ron, you have not made a "simple" mistake, you have been deceived, and you are trying to deceive. You should speedily admit your error and repent. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
P.S. Your other great error or mistake is your refusal to admit that Adam BECAME like (as) Elohim to KNOW Good and Evil AFTER he ATE from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and NOT BEFORE as you wrongly state:
Gen 3:22 And Yehovah Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
It states it as plain as day Ron, WHY don't you believe what The Scriptures state instead to trying to interpret your OWN logic and false thinking into your beliefs?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 5, 2022 11:19:06 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, I will give it another try to convince you, but I will need to see some progress on your part to remain again. Concerning Yeshua being offered or sacrificed BY Himself, instead of SINNERS sacrificing and putting Him upon the Cross, let us examine Paul's words that you keep misunderstanding:
You posted:
And walk in love, as Christ/Messiah also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice G2378 to God/Elohim for a sweetsmelling savour. Ephesians 5:2.
You Eliyahu, INTERPRET Paul as meaning Messiah offered or sacrificed Himself to Elohim (that He was the one butchering Himself). That is in error. All Paul was saying is that Messiah gave Himself to us AS an offering and sacrifice to Elohim. Messiah was NOT sacrificing (slaying) Himself (the Lamb cannot kill/slay itself, it is the sinner who does this); He willingly gave Himself to be OUR offering and sacrifice to Elohim, and we did, BY SINNING, we did sacrifice/slay Him. Do you see how you have twisted and distorted the words of Paul?
Again, you posted this:
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, G2378 first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he/Yah Messiah did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 7:27.
Again, you Eliyahu INTERPRET Paul as meaning Messiah was the one offering or butchering Himself. All that Paul was saying is that Messiah offered Himself up to us, to be OUR Sacrifice...it was a ONCE for ALL Sacrifice...Everyone can CLAIM Yeshua as THEIR Sacrifice, and you keep denying this.
Again, you posted this:
For then must he/Messiah often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he/Messiah appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice/G2378 of himself. Hebrews 9:26.
Here again Eliyahu you INTERPRET Paul as saying Messiah is the one sacrificing Himself, and all Paul is meaning is that Messiah appeared to put sins out of sinners lives by Himself being sacrificed. The Law does not require the offering to sacrifice itself, the Law requires the SINNER to slay the sacrifice, and the purpose for this is to put sin away FROM the sinner so they are NOT actively sinning. You think this putting away of sin to be the "penalty" of your sin, and here again, you are in error.
And again, you posted this:
But this man/Yah Messiah, after he had offered one sacrifice G2378 for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God/Elohim; Hebrews 10:12.
Here again Eliyahu you INTERPRET Paul as saying Messiah is the one sacrificing Himself, and all Paul is meaning is that Messiah had offered Himself to us to be OUR one sacrifice for our sin. And several verses later Paul states, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Paul is speaking about the SINNER sacrificing for their sin, NOT the offering itself sacrificing for sin. Here again, you are twisting and distorting the words of the Apostle Paul, and you should change ALL of your beliefs of what you THINK Paul is teaching, and come to the Knowledge of the Truth that YOU, by sinning, did slay/sacrifice Yeshua (with the help of wicked men). Sinning is what put Yeshua upon the Cross (made Him YOUR sacrifice), and IF you have been enlightened to this Truth, and then you FALL AWAY to where you need to be RENEWED to repentance from YOUR sin, then you RE-CRUCIFY Yeshua and shame Him by you not having your sin put away from/out of your life. What I am telling you is the Truth and you should take heed. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 5, 2022 11:52:10 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, I will give it another try to convince you, but I will need to see some progress on your part to remain again. Concerning Yeshua being offered or sacrificed BY Himself, instead of SINNERS sacrificing and putting Him upon the Cross, let us examine Paul's words that you keep misunderstanding: You posted: And walk in love, as Christ/Messiah also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice G2378 to God/Elohim for a sweetsmelling savour. Ephesians 5:2.You Eliyahu, INTERPRET Paul as meaning Messiah offered or sacrificed Himself to Elohim (that He was the one butchering Himself). That is in error. All Paul was saying is that Messiah gave Himself to us AS an offering and sacrifice to Elohim. Messiah was NOT sacrificing (slaying) Himself (the Lamb cannot kill/slay itself, it is the sinner who does this); He willingly gave Himself to be OUR offering and sacrifice to Elohim, and we did, BY SINNING, we did sacrifice/slay Him. Do you see how you have twisted and distorted the words of Paul?Again, you posted this: Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, G2378 first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he/Yah Messiah did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 7:27.Again, you Eliyahu INTERPRET Paul as meaning Messiah was the one offering or butchering Himself. All that Paul was saying is that Messiah offered Himself up to us, to be OUR Sacrifice...it was a ONCE for ALL Sacrifice...Everyone can CLAIM Yeshua as THEIR Sacrifice, and you keep denying this.Again, you posted this: For then must he/Messiah often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he/Messiah appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice/G2378 of himself. Hebrews 9:26.Here again Eliyahu you INTERPRET Paul as saying Messiah is the one sacrificing Himself, and all Paul is meaning is that Messiah appeared to put sins out of sinners lives by Himself being sacrificed. The Law does not require the offering to sacrifice itself, the Law requires the SINNER to slay the sacrifice, and the purpose for this is to put sin away FROM the sinner so they are NOT actively sinning. You think this putting away of sin to be the "penalty" of your sin, and here again, you are in error.And again, you posted this:But this man/Yah Messiah, after he had offered one sacrifice G2378 for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God/Elohim; Hebrews 10:12.
Here again Eliyahu you INTERPRET Paul as saying Messiah is the one sacrificing Himself, and all Paul is meaning is that Messiah had offered Himself to us to be OUR one sacrifice for our sin. And several verses later Paul states, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Paul is speaking about the SINNER sacrificing for their sin, NOT the offering itself sacrificing for sin. Here again, you are twisting and distorting the words of the Apostle Paul, and you should change ALL of your beliefs of what you THINK Paul is teaching, and come to the Knowledge of the Truth that YOU, by sinning, did slay/sacrifice Yeshua (with the help of wicked men). Sinning is what put Yeshua upon the Cross (made Him YOUR sacrifice), and IF you have been enlightened to this Truth, and then you FALL AWAY to where you need to be RENEWED to repentance from YOUR sin, then you RE-CRUCIFY Yeshua and shame Him by you not having your sin put away from/out of your life. What I am telling you is the Truth and you should take heed. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrewKen, I can't help but smile, because your here trying to twist Paul's words to fit your pet doctrine, and ye contradict the words of Paul in this post above too. Here below is one example. You wrote above. and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to GodAnd walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us/ours as an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. Ephesians 5:2. No Ken, the apostle Paul wrote that Yah Messiah gave Himself as our offering and sacrifice to Elohim, and not to us as ye wrote.
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Post by Bill on Mar 5, 2022 11:59:54 GMT -5
AntiMessiah's can't help themselves in denying or contradicting the word of God; in the scriptures the word 'deny' means to contradict. ἀρνέομαι arnéomai, ar-neh'-om-ahee; perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the middle voice of G4483; to contradict, i.e. disavow, reject, abnegate:—deny, refuse. www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G720&t=KJV
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 5, 2022 12:12:23 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, you wrote:
No Ken, the apostle Paul wrote that Yah Messiah gave Himself as our offering and sacrifice to Elohim, and not to us as ye wrote.
Why don't you believe YOUR own words? You stated CORRECTLY, Messiah gave Himself AS OUR offering and sacrifice to Elohim. He is OUR sacrifice and offering to Elohim, and I am glad you finally admit that. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 5, 2022 12:15:26 GMT -5
One more thing Eliyahu, if as you state, Messiah is YOUR offering and sacrifice to Elohim, how did you sacrifice Him?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 5, 2022 12:19:40 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, you wrote: No Ken, the apostle Paul wrote that Yah Messiah gave Himself as our offering and sacrifice to Elohim, and not to us as ye wrote.Why don't you believe YOUR own words? You stated CORRECTLY, Messiah gave Himself AS OUR offering and sacrifice to Elohim. He is OUR sacrifice and offering to Elohim, and I am glad you finally admit that. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, happy Rome's satyrday to ye too. Then why did ye contradict Paul when ye wrote. ? I can't help but smile, yea I believe the apostle Paul. PS: Did ye ever get to go visit Troy Miller and talk to him about the true lunar Sabbath?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 5, 2022 12:24:43 GMT -5
One more thing Eliyahu, if as you state, Messiah is YOUR offering and sacrifice to Elohim, how did you sacrifice Him? No Ken, ye don't understand, because Messiah gave Himself as my offering sacrifice to Elohim.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 5, 2022 12:31:05 GMT -5
Ken, where does Paul write in any of his epistles or letters that "we sacrificed Yahushua Messiah"?
As I said on Lo-Ammi, you take Yah Messiah's Power and Authority and put it in the hands of men.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 5, 2022 12:37:56 GMT -5
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Post by Ron on Mar 5, 2022 13:08:15 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Ron, I thought I might respond to your false and misinformed accusations against me. You posted these: Why should I admit to something that is NOT an error or a mistake? Roms 4:3 states "Abraham believed Elohim, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Roms 4:9 (CBJ) states correctly, "Avraham's trust (faith) was credited to his account as righteousness." And finally, where Paul tells us the PROMISE (Free Gift) was THROUGH the righteousness of FAITH, and that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you all along. Rom 4:13 states "For the PROMISE, that he should be heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the Law, but THROUGH the RIGHTEOUSNESS of FAITH." Now Ron, you have not made a "simple" mistake, you have been deceived, and you are trying to deceive. You should speedily admit your error and repent. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Your other great error or mistake is your refusal to admit that Adam BECAME like (as) Elohim to KNOW Good and Evil AFTER he ATE from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and NOT BEFORE as you wrongly state: Gen 3:22 And Yehovah Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: It states it as plain as day Ron, WHY don't you believe what The Scriptures state instead to trying to interpret your OWN logic and false thinking into your beliefs? ImAHebrew: I do not deny the scriptures that you gave above, and they are not telling us to have faith in the free gift of righteousness as you wrote; but this is exactly as you wrote before: The texts tell us that Abraham believed God and not that he believed in the free gift of righteousness as you wrote, and this is an example of how you will pervert the texts of scriptures and not admit to a simple mistake in writing. And about Adam, was he a dumb robot? That's the question that I asked you in which you did not answer.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 6:51:26 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Ron, I thought I might respond to your false and misinformed accusations against me. You posted these: Why should I admit to something that is NOT an error or a mistake? Roms 4:3 states "Abraham believed Elohim, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Roms 4:9 (CBJ) states correctly, "Avraham's trust (faith) was credited to his account as righteousness." And finally, where Paul tells us the PROMISE (Free Gift) was THROUGH the righteousness of FAITH, and that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you all along. Rom 4:13 states "For the PROMISE, that he should be heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the Law, but THROUGH the RIGHTEOUSNESS of FAITH." Now Ron, you have not made a "simple" mistake, you have been deceived, and you are trying to deceive. You should speedily admit your error and repent. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Your other great error or mistake is your refusal to admit that Adam BECAME like (as) Elohim to KNOW Good and Evil AFTER he ATE from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and NOT BEFORE as you wrongly state: Gen 3:22 And Yehovah Elohim said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: It states it as plain as day Ron, WHY don't you believe what The Scriptures state instead to trying to interpret your OWN logic and false thinking into your beliefs? ImAHebrew: I do not deny the scriptures that you gave above, and they are not telling us to have faith in the free gift of righteousness as you wrote; but this is exactly as you wrote before:The texts tell us that Abraham believed God and not that he believed in the free gift of righteousness as you wrote, and this is an example of how you will pervert the texts of scriptures and not admit to a simple mistake in writing. And about Adam, was he a dumb robot? That's the question that I asked you in which you did not answer. Shalom Ron, maybe you should try to explain Paul in Rom 9:30, Eph 2:8 and Gal 2:21? Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is by (of) faith. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through (by) faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of Elohim; Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate (G114-set aside) the grace (the gift) of Elohim: for if righteousness come by the law, then Messiah is dead in vain.Is not Paul telling you Ron that it is BY FAITH that you have this Free Gift of Righteousness (Grace) through the DEATH of Messiah? Why would Messiah's death be in vain concerning this Free Gift of Righteousness, IF our FAITH in this Free Gift of Righteousness is meaningless or set aside (as you so valiantly try to do)? Why do you keep objecting to how Paul is teaching us? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 7:14:17 GMT -5
One more thing Eliyahu, if as you state, Messiah is YOUR offering and sacrifice to Elohim, how did you sacrifice Him? No Ken, ye don't understand, because Messiah gave Himself as my offering sacrifice to Elohim. Shalom Eliyahu, well, if Messiah is doing YOUR offering and sacrifice (in your stead), why then would you need to offer your body as a living sacrifice to Elohim, or to even be poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice, or to even make up what is lacking in the afflictions of Messiah? Please explain those things to me? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 9:21:43 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: You trying to twist those texts of Paul's to save face does not help your cause any, these texts do not tell us to have faith in the free gift of righteousness as you suppose, because it is our faith in God and Christ that we receive the free gift of righteousness, the same as Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness Romans 4:3, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=Abraham+believed+God&t=KJV Why can't you admit to a simple error?
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