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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 9:30:55 GMT -5
Imahebrew: You telling people that they have to receive the mark of the beast for the gift of righteousness is another scripture twisting travesty.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 9:48:00 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, you asked and stated:
"And about Adam, was he a dumb robot? That's the question that I asked you in which you did not answer."
No, Adam was not a dumb robot, he was just someone who's eyes had not been opened yet to good and evil. Once he ate from the tree he was commanded not to eat from (The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil), his eyes opened to see that he was naked, and this in turn, taught him about the knowledge of good and evil. It is evil to disobey a command of Elohim, and it is good to obey a command of Elohim. He didn't realize this UNTIL he sinned, but BEFORE he actually sinned, he was naked, and he didn't have any shame for his nakedness, because he didn't have the Knowledge of Good and Evil yet. It's only after someone understands what they did was wrong that they become ashamed, and before Adam did what was wrong, he wasn't ashamed of his sinful flesh (nakedness).
Lam 1:8 Jerusalem sinned greatly...they have seen her nakedness; Even she herself groans and turns away (she is ashamed).
Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Rev 16:15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
Nakedness is symbolic of being sinful, and once one has sinned, and it becomes apparent, shame ensues, and that is what happened to Adam. The Saints wear fine white linen (righteousness), and that covers their nakedness. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 10:09:49 GMT -5
Imahebrew: You telling people that they have to receive the mark of the beast for the gift of righteousness is another scripture twisting travesty. Shalom Ron, it's only your lack of understanding concerning the Grace of Elohim that causes you to misunderstand Paul. Paul clearly taught that if you want to receive or seek righteousness by Messiah, you most assuredly had to have been marked with sin (found as a sinner) (Gal 2:17). This "receiving" or "seeking" of righteousness can only be acquired by faith in how YOUR sin did slay/sacrifice YOUR offering, Messiah Yeshua. This is WHY Paul taught that when the Law entered, sin did increase, and that in turn increased Grace, and Grace is the Free Gift of Righteousness. That's the way it works Ron, you had to be a sinner (marked with sin) to acquire this free gift of righteousness, by FAITH. So, keep working on this Ron, eventually you should grasp this fully, and it will be a great blessing to you if you do so PRIOR to Yeshua's return. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 10:10:02 GMT -5
ImAHebrew:So let me ask you also; Did God not tell him what was good?
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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 10:17:38 GMT -5
Imahebrew: You telling people that they have to receive the mark of the beast for the gift of righteousness is another scripture twisting travesty. Shalom Ron, it's only your lack of understanding concerning the Grace of Elohim that causes you to misunderstand Paul. Paul clearly taught that if you want to receive or seek righteousness by Messiah, you most assuredly had to have been marked with sin (found as a sinner) (Gal 2:17). This "receiving" or "seeking" of righteousness can only be acquired by faith in how YOUR sin did slay/sacrifice YOUR offering, Messiah Yeshua. This is WHY Paul taught that when the Law entered, sin did increase, and that in turn increased Grace, and Grace is the Free Gift of Righteousness. That's the way it works Ron, you had to be a sinner (marked with sin) to acquire this free gift of righteousness, by FAITH. So, keep working on this Ron, eventually you should grasp this fully, and it will be a great blessing to you if you do so PRIOR to Yeshua's return. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: We don't get our righteousness in or from our sin, it is the imputed righteousness of God, righteousness comes from God. Did Christ get His righteousness by sinning too?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 10:23:30 GMT -5
ImAHebrew:So let me ask you also; Did God not tell him what was good? Shalom Ron, well, there are no verses that say Elohim told Adam and Eve the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but there are verses that say AFTER they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that they BECAUSE as Elohim, to KNOW good and evil. It's as plain as day if you truly want to accept with the Scriptures state. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 10:25:38 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, it's only your lack of understanding concerning the Grace of Elohim that causes you to misunderstand Paul. Paul clearly taught that if you want to receive or seek righteousness by Messiah, you most assuredly had to have been marked with sin (found as a sinner) (Gal 2:17). This "receiving" or "seeking" of righteousness can only be acquired by faith in how YOUR sin did slay/sacrifice YOUR offering, Messiah Yeshua. This is WHY Paul taught that when the Law entered, sin did increase, and that in turn increased Grace, and Grace is the Free Gift of Righteousness. That's the way it works Ron, you had to be a sinner (marked with sin) to acquire this free gift of righteousness, by FAITH. So, keep working on this Ron, eventually you should grasp this fully, and it will be a great blessing to you if you do so PRIOR to Yeshua's return. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: We don't get our righteousness in or from our sin, it is the imputed righteousness of God, righteousness comes from God. Did Christ get His righteousness by sinning too? Ron, If ye believe Ken, then the devil would also be entitled to a lot of grace, because the devil has sinned greatly, and maybe Ken can also reason the devil can be saved too.
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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 10:31:16 GMT -5
ImAHebrew:So let me ask you also; Did God not tell him what was good? Shalom Ron, well, there are no verses that say Elohim told Adam and Eve the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but there are verses that say AFTER they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that they BECAUSE as Elohim, to KNOW good and evil. It's as plain as day if you truly want to accept with the Scriptures state. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: So when God talked to Adam, then God was not telling him what was good?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 10:31:35 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, it's only your lack of understanding concerning the Grace of Elohim that causes you to misunderstand Paul. Paul clearly taught that if you want to receive or seek righteousness by Messiah, you most assuredly had to have been marked with sin (found as a sinner) (Gal 2:17). This "receiving" or "seeking" of righteousness can only be acquired by faith in how YOUR sin did slay/sacrifice YOUR offering, Messiah Yeshua. This is WHY Paul taught that when the Law entered, sin did increase, and that in turn increased Grace, and Grace is the Free Gift of Righteousness. That's the way it works Ron, you had to be a sinner (marked with sin) to acquire this free gift of righteousness, by FAITH. So, keep working on this Ron, eventually you should grasp this fully, and it will be a great blessing to you if you do so PRIOR to Yeshua's return. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: We don't get our righteousness in or from our sin, it is the imputed righteousness of God, righteousness comes from God. Did Christ get His righteousness by sinning too? Shalom Ron, well, then how does INCREASING sin, INCREASE Grace? Concerning righteousness, David tells us that ALL of Elohim's commandments are righteousness. Paul tells us that ONLY the DOER'S of the Law are righteous, and Messiah was a DOER of the Law, and He didn't need the Free Gift of Righteousness the way sinners do. All sinners have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of Elohim, therefore ALL sinners have this Grace (Gift of Righteousness that is imputed to them), by having FAITH that Yeshua is THEIR sin offering who THEY did slay/sacrifice BY sinning. Hopefully you are going to have the light bulb go off in your head one of these days. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 10:36:35 GMT -5
Shalom Ron, well, there are no verses that say Elohim told Adam and Eve the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but there are verses that say AFTER they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that they BECAUSE as Elohim, to KNOW good and evil. It's as plain as day if you truly want to accept with the Scriptures state. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. ImAHebrew: So when God talked to Adam, then God was not telling him what was good? Shalom Ron, you can assume anything you want to imagine as to what Elohim was telling Adam, but to be SURE about Adam's LACK of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, you can CLEARLY see that in what was WRITTEN to us. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 10:48:12 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Where are we told in the scriptures that ' ALL sinners have this Grace (Gift of Righteousness that is imputed to them)'? And where in the scriptures are we told that 'we did slay/sacrifice Christ by sinning'? To be honest nothing you write here can be found written in the scriptures; it's beginning to look like that you believe your own made up fake news about the scriptures instead of believing the scriptures as already written.
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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 10:51:45 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: So when God talked to Adam, then God was not telling him what was good? Shalom Ron, you can assume anything you want to imagine as to what Elohim was telling Adam, but to be SURE about Adam's LACK of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, you can CLEARLY see that in what was WRITTEN to us. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. No ImAHebrew: I believe that all God told Adam was good, and I don't believe that God would have told Adam anything that was evil.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 10:56:45 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Where are we told in the scriptures that ' ALL sinners have this Grace (Gift of Righteousness that is imputed to them)'? And where in the scriptures are we told that 'we did slay/sacrifice Christ by sinning'? To be honest nothing you write here can be found written in the scriptures; it's beginning to look like that you believe your own made up fake news about the scriptures instead of believing the scriptures as already written. Ron, ye see, Ken does not really believe that Messiah separates and frees us away from our sins, he must believe that Messiah saves us in our sins, he really believes what Paul's kinsman thought about Paul.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 11:07:06 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: We don't get our righteousness in or from our sin, it is the imputed righteousness of God, righteousness comes from God. Did Christ get His righteousness by sinning too? Ron, If ye believe Ken, then the devil would also be entitled to a lot of grace, because the devil has sinned greatly, and maybe Ken can also reason the devil can be saved too. Shalom Eliyahu, I know you wrote this to Ron, but I would like to give a response. There is no REPENTANCE or TURNING from sin with the devil, because the devil sinned NOT IN IGNORANCE, but with a high hand (presumptuously), and the Law states that the sin offering could only be offered for sins done in ignorance (Lev 4:27, Num 15:30, and Deut 17:12). All sinners, in ignorance, followed the lusts and desires of their flesh, not KNOWING their sin was killing Yeshua (John 7:19), and that sin done in ignorance KILLS Yeshua as OUR sin offering, thus sacrificing Him and FULFILLING the Just Requirement of the Law (BY US) (Rom 8:1-4), and that is the mechanics of how Elohim is giving us the Free Gift of Righteousness. But to receive or acquire this free gift of righteousness, you are required to have FAITH in Messiah AS YOUR sin offering. Hope this helps you to grasp it better Eliyahu. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 11:16:02 GMT -5
Ron, If ye believe Ken, then the devil would also be entitled to a lot of grace, because the devil has sinned greatly, and maybe Ken can also reason the devil can be saved too. Shalom Eliyahu, I know you wrote this to Ron, but I would like to give a response. There is no REPENTANCE or TURNING from sin with the devil, because the devil sinned NOT IN IGNORANCE, but with a high hand (presumptuously), and the Law states that the sin offering could only be offered for sins done in ignorance (Lev 4:27, Num 15:30, and Deut 17:12). All sinners, in ignorance, followed the lusts and desires of their flesh, not KNOWING their sin was killing Yeshua (John 7:19), and that sin done in ignorance KILLS Yeshua as OUR sin offering, thus sacrificing Him and FULFILLING the Just Requirement of the Law (BY US) (Rom 8:1-4), and that is the mechanics of how Elohim is giving us the Free Gift of Righteousness. But to receive or acquire this free gift of righteousness, you are required to have FAITH in Messiah AS YOUR sin offering. Hope this helps you to grasp it better Eliyahu. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, Do ye really think that men do not sin presumptuously too?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 11:21:08 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Where are we told in the scriptures that ' ALL sinners have this Grace (Gift of Righteousness that is imputed to them)'? And where in the scriptures are we told that 'we did slay/sacrifice Christ by sinning'? To be honest nothing you write here can be found written in the scriptures; it's beginning to look like that you believe your own made up fake news about the scriptures instead of believing the scriptures as already written. Shalom Ron, first, Paul tells us clearly that the Grace of Elohim has APPEARED to all men: Tit 2:11 For the Grace of Elohim that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
So ALL sinners have this Grace (Free Gift of Righteousness), that is imputed to them BY FAITH, but that does not mean that ALL sinners acquire this Free Gift of Righteousness. Most would be like you and Eliyahu, and refuse to accept or acquire this Free Gift BY FAITH. You see, most, like you two, refuse to accept that YOUR breaking of the Law of Moses (your sin) is what KILLS, or attempts to KILL Yeshua:
Jn 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill Me?
Your lack of keeping the Law of Moses is what slays/sacrifices Yeshua. Hope this helps you Ron. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 11:23:10 GMT -5
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Post by Ron on Mar 6, 2022 11:28:58 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Where are we told in the scriptures that ' ALL sinners have this Grace (Gift of Righteousness that is imputed to them)'? And where in the scriptures are we told that 'we did slay/sacrifice Christ by sinning'? To be honest nothing you write here can be found written in the scriptures; it's beginning to look like that you believe your own made up fake news about the scriptures instead of believing the scriptures as already written. Shalom Ron, first, Paul tells us clearly that the Grace of Elohim has APPEARED to all men: Tit 2:11 For the Grace of Elohim that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
So ALL sinners have this Grace (Free Gift of Righteousness), that is imputed to them BY FAITH, but that does not mean that ALL sinners acquire this Free Gift of Righteousness. Most would be like you and Eliyahu, and refuse to accept or acquire this Free Gift BY FAITH. You see, most, like you two, refuse to accept that YOUR breaking of the Law of Moses (your sin) is what KILLS, or attempts to KILL Yeshua:
Jn 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill Me?
Your lack of keeping the Law of Moses is what slays/sacrifices Yeshua. Hope this helps you Ron. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.ImAHebrew: These texts that you gave do not have your written words in them; and your grasping at straws and swallowing your own camel to make them support your ideas.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 11:34:35 GMT -5
Ken, from where did Yah Messiah get His grace and righteousness from, because He sure did not get it from His sin did He?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 11:40:11 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, I know you wrote this to Ron, but I would like to give a response. There is no REPENTANCE or TURNING from sin with the devil, because the devil sinned NOT IN IGNORANCE, but with a high hand (presumptuously), and the Law states that the sin offering could only be offered for sins done in ignorance (Lev 4:27, Num 15:30, and Deut 17:12). All sinners, in ignorance, followed the lusts and desires of their flesh, not KNOWING their sin was killing Yeshua (John 7:19), and that sin done in ignorance KILLS Yeshua as OUR sin offering, thus sacrificing Him and FULFILLING the Just Requirement of the Law (BY US) (Rom 8:1-4), and that is the mechanics of how Elohim is giving us the Free Gift of Righteousness. But to receive or acquire this free gift of righteousness, you are required to have FAITH in Messiah AS YOUR sin offering. Hope this helps you to grasp it better Eliyahu. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, Do ye really think that men do not sin presumptuously too? Shalom Eliyahu, sure, but ONLY after they would have come to a Knowledge of the Truth, having their MINDS OPENED to what their sin did to Yeshua. Before their minds were opened to what their sin was doing to Yeshua, all of that sin was "done in ignorance," even though they KNEW they were sinning. The ignorance is about NOT KNOWING their sin was killing Yeshua. Not knowing your sin was killing Yeshua can be TURNED into RIGHTEOUSNESS by the sinner confessing what their sin did, and accepting Yeshua AS THEIR sin offering, BY FAITH. But, IF a person falls BACK into deliberate sin AFTER they have accepted the Righteousness that their sin, which was done in ignorance (about killing Yeshua) did fulfill, then that sin becomes "presumptuous sin," and it won't be forgiven or sacrificed for. Don't you remember Yeshua's words, "All manner of sin will be forgiven the sons of men, except for the sin against the Spirit." Sinning against the Spirit is "presumptuous sin," and that will not be forgiven in this age or any age to come, no matter how many buckets of blood someone tries to throw on it. Hope this helps. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 11:48:57 GMT -5
Ken, from where did Yah Messiah get His grace and righteousness from, because He sure did not get it from His sin did He? Shalom Eliyahu, I'm going to have to run, so this will be my last response this morning. I have already told you, Messiah had no sin, and He had a FULL measure of the Spirit given to Him, and He did not come to TURN Himself AWAY from sin, He came as a willing Lamb to be OUR offering and sacrifice for sin so that WE would TURN AWAY from all of our iniquities. You need to memorize that. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 11:51:14 GMT -5
Ken, Do ye really think that men do not sin presumptuously too? Shalom Eliyahu, sure, but ONLY after they would have come to a Knowledge of the Truth, having their MINDS OPENED to what their sin did to Yeshua. Before their minds were opened to what their sin was doing to Yeshua, all of that sin was "done in ignorance," even though they KNEW they were sinning. The ignorance is about NOT KNOWING their sin was killing Yeshua. Not knowing your sin was killing Yeshua can be TURNED into RIGHTEOUSNESS by the sinner confessing what their sin did, and accepting Yeshua AS THEIR sin offering, BY FAITH. But, IF a person falls BACK into deliberate sin AFTER they have accepted the Righteousness that their sin, which was done in ignorance (about killing Yeshua) did fulfill, then that sin becomes "presumptuous sin," and it won't be forgiven or sacrificed for. Don't you remember Yeshua's words, "All manner of sin will be forgiven the sons of men, except for the sin against the Spirit." Sinning against the Spirit is "presumptuous sin," and that will not be forgiven in this age or any age to come, no matter how many buckets of blood someone tries to throw on it. Hope this helps. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, Ken, please, how can a person sin in ignorance even though they know they were sinning, and how can it be sinning in ignorance when they know that they are sinning? Boy what a contradiction in the same sentence, are ye sure that your not Spying here?
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 11:56:37 GMT -5
Ken, from where did Yah Messiah get His grace and righteousness from, because He sure did not get it from His sin did He? Shalom Eliyahu, I'm going to have to run, so this will be my last response this morning. I have already told you, Messiah had no sin, and He had a FULL measure of the Spirit given to Him, and He did not come to TURN Himself AWAY from sin, He came as a willing Lamb to be OUR offering and sacrifice for sin so that WE would TURN AWAY from all of our iniquities. You need to memorize that. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, I love you as I would a brother, and yes Yah Messiah gave Himself as our sin offering sacrifice to Elohim, the scriptures do NOT tell us that we sacrificed Yahushua to Elohim as ye have devised out of your own heart and mind.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 12:03:32 GMT -5
Ken, with all of this above aside, I would later like us to speak openly about certain texts of scriptures and not try to pick each others posts apart, there are verses that I would like your opinion on though if ye would care to do so
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 12:11:38 GMT -5
Ken, like this verse by Paul below in Philippians 1:23.
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
What is your ideas on this verse by Paul?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 6, 2022 12:12:59 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, sure, but ONLY after they would have come to a Knowledge of the Truth, having their MINDS OPENED to what their sin did to Yeshua. Before their minds were opened to what their sin was doing to Yeshua, all of that sin was "done in ignorance," even though they KNEW they were sinning. The ignorance is about NOT KNOWING their sin was killing Yeshua. Not knowing your sin was killing Yeshua can be TURNED into RIGHTEOUSNESS by the sinner confessing what their sin did, and accepting Yeshua AS THEIR sin offering, BY FAITH. But, IF a person falls BACK into deliberate sin AFTER they have accepted the Righteousness that their sin, which was done in ignorance (about killing Yeshua) did fulfill, then that sin becomes "presumptuous sin," and it won't be forgiven or sacrificed for. Don't you remember Yeshua's words, "All manner of sin will be forgiven the sons of men, except for the sin against the Spirit." Sinning against the Spirit is "presumptuous sin," and that will not be forgiven in this age or any age to come, no matter how many buckets of blood someone tries to throw on it. Hope this helps. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, Ken, please, how can a person sin in ignorance even though they know they were sinning, and how can it be sinning in ignorance when they know that they are sinning? Boy what a contradiction in the same sentence, are ye sure that your not Spying here? Shalom Eliyahu, you were quick to respond before I left, so I will answer you on this. You need to explain to me what sins the Children of Israel were committing "in ignorance" that they could sacrifice for? Seems to me by YOUR standards, they wouldn't be sacrificing very much. What you need to focus on is how NOT KNOWING that your sin is actively killing Yeshua, that is the sin done in ignorance. Remember Peter telling those whom he was accusing of killing Yeshua, and what he told them: Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I KNOW that through ignorance ye did [it], as [did] also your rulers. That is how one "sins in ignorance" by not KNOWING what they were doing to Yeshua, in breaking the Law of Moses. That KILLS Him. And UNTIL you come to a KNOWLEDGE of the Truth either by FAITH or by someone clearly telling you, can you possibly do a presumptuous sin. Now, when Paul tells us about the high priest entering once a year into the Holy of Holies to offer blood for the sins of the people committed in ignorance, would someone who KNEW they were telling a lie, could that sin be sacrificed for, or would it be a "presumptuous sin?" Answer honestly. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 12:22:20 GMT -5
Ken, Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I KNOW that through ignorance ye did [it], as [did] also your rulers.
Peter did not say that "we did it in ignorance" and it's twisting the texts to do otherwise.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 6, 2022 14:16:30 GMT -5
Ken, Ken, please, how can a person sin in ignorance even though they know they were sinning, and how can it be sinning in ignorance when they know that they are sinning? Boy what a contradiction in the same sentence, are ye sure that your not Spying here? Shalom Eliyahu, you were quick to respond before I left, so I will answer you on this. You need to explain to me what sins the Children of Israel were committing "in ignorance" that they could sacrifice for? Seems to me by YOUR standards, they wouldn't be sacrificing very much. What you need to focus on is how NOT KNOWING that your sin is actively killing Yeshua, that is the sin done in ignorance. Remember Peter telling those whom he was accusing of killing Yeshua, and what he told them: Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I KNOW that through ignorance ye did [it], as [did] also your rulers. That is how one "sins in ignorance" by not KNOWING what they were doing to Yeshua, in breaking the Law of Moses. That KILLS Him. And UNTIL you come to a KNOWLEDGE of the Truth either by FAITH or by someone clearly telling you, can you possibly do a presumptuous sin. Now, when Paul tells us about the high priest entering once a year into the Holy of Holies to offer blood for the sins of the people committed in ignorance, would someone who KNEW they were telling a lie, could that sin be sacrificed for, or would it be a "presumptuous sin?" Answer honestly. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Ken, I understand the difference between knowing and not knowing. You wrote this. and why won't you accept what Paul wrote about Yah Messiah as our High Priest below. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his/Yahushua's own blood he entered in once into the (Heavenly) holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission/forgiveness.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:12-26. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=9&t=KJV#22The Holy of Holyies in the earthly tabernacle was patterned after the Heavenly Holy Place which Messiah entered with His own blood, and old buddy, you deny these texts, then ye are denying the new covenant, and no where in these texts does Paul write "that we sacrificed Yahushua to Elohim".
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Post by ImAHebrew on Mar 12, 2022 8:12:21 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, are you saying you will turn over a NEW leaf...DISCUSSING and EXPOUNDING the Scriptures instead of just quoting them and expecting everyone to grasp their meaning? See, you read a verse by the Apostle Paul and THINK he is CLEARLY telling you what YOU believe, yet, I read the same verse and take Paul to mean something that you cannot grasp. Paul speaks about "eternal redemption," and you, along with traditional christianity believe Paul is speaking about satisfying the penalty of your sin ETERNALLY, and that is not at all the focus of what he meant. He is speaking about eternally being REDEEMED from being a sinner. It is a "purging" of sin FROM the life of a sinner, and ONCE this has taken place, no more sacrifice is needed to "take your sin away." Yeshua's Righteous and Innocent blood was shed to "take away" sin FROM the LIFE of sinners, to where they are no longer actively or deliberately sinning from their heart. That is the "cleansing" FROM sin BY His Blood, and you mistake Paul to mean that Elohim requires Righteous/Innocent shed blood to satisfy His Justice in forgiving sinners. That is delusional and a complete twisting/distorting of Paul. Hopefully you will see this some day. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Mar 12, 2022 10:05:44 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, are you saying you will turn over a NEW leaf...DISCUSSING and EXPOUNDING the Scriptures instead of just quoting them and expecting everyone to grasp their meaning? See, you read a verse by the Apostle Paul and THINK he is CLEARLY telling you what YOU believe, yet, I read the same verse and take Paul to mean something that you cannot grasp. Paul speaks about "eternal redemption," and you, along with traditional christianity believe Paul is speaking about satisfying the penalty of your sin ETERNALLY, and that is not at all the focus of what he meant. He is speaking about eternally being REDEEMED from being a sinner. It is a "purging" of sin FROM the life of a sinner, and ONCE this has taken place, no more sacrifice is needed to "take your sin away." Yeshua's Righteous and Innocent blood was shed to "take away" sin FROM the LIFE of sinners, to where they are no longer actively or deliberately sinning from their heart. That is the "cleansing" FROM sin BY His Blood, and you mistake Paul to mean that Elohim requires Righteous/Innocent shed blood to satisfy His Justice in forgiving sinners. That is delusional and a complete twisting/distorting of Paul. Hopefully you will see this some day. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. No Ken, when I read a verse by the apostle Paul, I think that Paul is telling me exactly what he-Paul means and believes, and I put together ALL of Paul's written texts on a subject to get a proper exegesis from his texts as to all and exactly as he thinks, means, and believes. However, I thought that you and I both could speak openly about certain texts by the apostle Paul and what he means like in Philippians chapter 1. here. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Phl&c=1&t=KJV&sstr=0Are ye willing to do so?
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