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Post by Ron on Feb 8, 2023 18:56:23 GMT -5
Ken, do ye realize what these passages of scriptures is really saying? How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of Elohim: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation/MOEDIM/H4150/APPOINTED TIMES, in the sides of the north:I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:12-14. These texts are telling us that satan is bragging about sitting on the mount of Yah's appointed times, and the only way that he can get his worship is by deceiving the world with a counterfeit calendar and sabbath to get his worship. Eliyahu: You've made this text take on a whole new meaning for me.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 8, 2023 19:08:13 GMT -5
Ken, I did in post #870 above. Shalom Eliyahu, I'm very sorry that I did not see it. Here is your answer: My question was: Eliyahu, could you be a little more specific. It is very important. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 8, 2023 19:21:04 GMT -5
Ken, I was specific, this is said in similar fashion because both the seventh day Sabbath is an appointed time, and the 15th day feast appointed time occurs on the same day.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 8, 2023 19:37:31 GMT -5
Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day(22nd), that soul shall be cut off from Israel. Exodus 12:15. Here above the 22nd is indeed the seventh day of the week. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=seventh+day&t=KJVSeven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast/CHAG to the YHWH Exodus 13:6. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exo&c=13&t=KJV#6Moses is calling the 15th day ABOVE the seventh day, as he does in Deuteronomy 5:12-15, and as John identifies for us that the 15th day after the 14th day Preparation is the feast of unleavened bread John 19:31, and as Luke in 23:54-56 identifies the 15th day as the weekly seventh day Sabbath.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 9, 2023 10:02:22 GMT -5
Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day(22nd), that soul shall be cut off from Israel. Exodus 12:15. Here above the 22nd is indeed the seventh day of the week. www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=seventh+day&t=KJVSeven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast/CHAG to the YHWH Exodus 13:6. www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exo&c=13&t=KJV#6Moses is calling the 15th day ABOVE the seventh day, as he does in Deuteronomy 5:12-15, and as John identifies for us that the 15th day after the 14th day Preparation is the feast of unleavened bread John 19:31, and as Luke in 23:54-56 identifies the 15th day as the weekly seventh day Sabbath. Shalom Eliyahu, here again, we have discussed Exo 12:15's "until" ad nauseum previously, and I have given you various translations that do NOT indicate it is the BEGINNING of the 7th day, but RATHER "through" the 7th day, which would make it the 7th day of the Feast/CHAG Sabbath, and NOT the 7th day weekly Sabbath as YOU portend. What can BEST prove YOUR error is the Feast of Tabernacles and the Passover. In Neh 8:18 AND Exo 12:6 the same Hebrew word is used as in Exo 12:15 (H5704). In Neh 8:18, the KJV translates it "unto": ( Neh 8:18) Also day by day, from the first day unto (H5704) the last day, he read in the book of the law of Elohim. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day [was] a solemn assembly, according unto the manner. So here in Neh 8:18, they keep the feast seven days, and day by day, from the first day UNTO the last day he read from the Law. By YOUR private interpretation of that Hebrew word (H5704) "unto" means it would be only UP TO the BEGINNING of the last day, and NOT through it? And then there is Exo 12:6 ( Ex 12:6) And ye shall keep it up until (H5704) the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Here again Eliyahu, by YOUR private interpretation of this Hebrew word the Passover Lambs could only be kept UNTIL the BEGINNING of the 14th day, and not THROUGH it? Do you "see" your error? So, Exo 12:15, as YOU privately interpret (H5704) means that whoever eats unleavened bread from the FIRST day of the Feast UNTIL the SEVENTH day, means that it has to be AT the BEGINNING of the SEVENTH day, and NOT THROUGH the SEVENTH day? Truly Eliyahu, you strain at the most insignificant words so as to make you swallow the gigantic lie of a Lunar Sabbath. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. It is total NONSENSE on your part to deduce that because the Israelites came forth out of Egypt on the 15th day of the First month, that then the 15th day of every month is ALWAYS a 7th day weekly Sabbath. Deu 5:12-15 is NOT a verification that the 7th day weekly Sabbath ALWAYS falls on the 15th day of every month, just like keeping the Feast of Weeks and REJOICING as they REMEMBER they were slaves in Egypt to therefore observe and do these statutes: Deut 16:10 - 16:12 (10) And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto Yehovah thy Elohim with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give [unto] [Yehovah] [thy Elohim], according as Yehovah thy Elohim hath blessed thee: (11) And thou shalt rejoice before Yehovah thy Elohim, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that [is] within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that [are] among you, in the place which Yehovah thy Elohim hath chosen to place his name there. (12) And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt: and thou shalt observe and do these statutes. Deut 5:12 - 5:15 (12) Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as Yehovah thy Elohim hath commanded thee. (13) Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: (14) But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of Yehovah thy Elohim: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. (15) And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] Yehovah thy Elohim brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Eliyahu, REMEMBERING they were SLAVES in Egypt and that Elohim brought them FORTH out of that Slavery, and with that REMBERANCE it should help them to keep the Sabbath (every 7th consecutive day-as the Jews do on Saturday/Saturn's day), and to observe and do His Statutes. For you to wrangle these verses to mean that the 7th day weekly Sabbath ALWAYS falls on the 15th day of the Lunar month is ridiculous.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 9, 2023 12:05:58 GMT -5
Ken,
Moses is calling the 15th day ABOVE the seventh day, as he does in Deuteronomy 5:12-15, and as John identifies for us that the 15th day after the 14th day Preparation is the feast of unleavened bread John 19:31, and as Luke in 23:54-56 identifies the 15th day as the weekly seventh day Sabbath.
And the fact of the matter is that these texts of scriptures identifies the 15th day Sabbath as BOTH the first day of the FEAST of unleavened bread and the weekly seventh day Sabbath, it too is determined from the NEW MOON of the first lunar month, and in the same way as the 14th day Passover is determined also.
Ken, the modern Roman calendar has 52 satyrdays during a year, then surely there would be many examples of it in the scriptures, but alas, there isn't a single ONE, and I know, because I tried finding them way back in 1978 and 1979, and that's WHY I know that ye or anyone else can't either.
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Post by Ron on Feb 9, 2023 12:26:14 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Can you please explain to me why the 14th and 15th day always stays the same and never changes in different years in the scriptures?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 9, 2023 13:59:23 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Can you please explain to me why the 14th and 15th day always stays the same and never changes in different years in the scriptures? Shalom Ron, you are going to have to clarify your question. An example would help. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Feb 9, 2023 14:35:00 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: As an example the children of Israel observed the 14th day Passover and the 15th day in the first month and in the first year in Exodus 12 and 23 after leaving Egypt; and they also observed the same 14th day in the first month in the second year in Numbers 9:1,5, and it never changes either in the year of Christ either. Why does the 14th and 15th day always stays the same days and never changes in different years in the scriptures?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 9, 2023 14:42:40 GMT -5
Ken,Moses is calling the 15th day ABOVE the seventh day, as he does in Deuteronomy 5:12-15, and as John identifies for us that the 15th day after the 14th day Preparation is the feast of unleavened bread John 19:31, and as Luke in 23:54-56 identifies the 15th day as the weekly seventh day Sabbath. And the fact of the matter is that these texts of scriptures identifies the 15th day Sabbath as BOTH the first day of the FEAST of unleavened bread and the weekly seventh day Sabbath, it too is determined from the NEW MOON of the first lunar month, and in the same way as the 14th day Passover is determined also. Ken, the modern Roman calendar has 52 satyrdays during a year, then surely there would be many examples of it in the scriptures, but alas, there isn't a single ONE, and I know, because I tried finding them way back in 1978 and 1979, and that's WHY I know that ye or anyone else can't either. Shalom Eliyahu, no, Moses, nor John, nor Luke calls or identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. Absolutely not, you are in error for a multitude of reasons that have been given to you over and over and over again. Now, to be sure, the FIRST or even the SEVENTH days of the Feast of ULB could fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, and EVEN the Passover can fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, but the Scriptures you have used with John and Luke in NO WAY identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. It's ALL in your imagination. Now, Nehemia Gordon has access to libraries and ancient writings that YOU or I could never get access too. He has studied the Lunar Sabbath extensively, and he has MANY contentions with your logic of the Scriptures. He states that within Judaism, the sages and ancient scholars would write extensively concerning debates and contentions. His LOGIC is that IF a 7th day weekly Sabbath was changed FROM using the Moon as the correct method to determine those Sabbaths, and transitioned to using the 24 hour Day (determined by the Sun) in establishing 6 full working days, and then resting on the 7th day of the week, there would be at least ONE Jewish SOURCE within the multitudes of pages written to show it was even possible (and he says the 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia is not credible, and he has his valid reasons, and IT is not an ancient source). So again Eliyahu, you got me to discuss with you, that IF I happened to stop by, your NEW information you have that I have never seen before, would prove a Wednesday Crucifixion is wrong. I'm about getting tired of debunking the Lunar Sabbath, so why don't you present your NEW information that shows a Wednesday Crucifixion is not viable. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Again, please don't do all the "private" interpretations of Scriptures like you have done with the Lunar Sabbath.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 9, 2023 14:58:49 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: As an example the children of Israel observed the 14th day Passover and the 15th day in the first month and in the first year in Exodus 12 and 23 after leaving Egypt; and they also observed the same 14th day in the first month in the second year in Numbers 9:1,5, and it never changes either in the year of Christ either. Why does the 14th and 15th day always stays the same days and never changes in different years in the scriptures? Shalom Ron, did you see my post where I gave the example of something that Elohim created which pictured Him? The Sun is a shadow or picture of Elohim. The Moon is also a shadow or picture of something Spiritual, and for you to have even the slightest chance of learning about the Passover of the SECOND Moon, you have to LEARN what the Moon is a picture or shadow of. The 14th and 15th days of the FIRST and SECOND Months do shadow or picture something Spiritual, but for SURE, the 15th day of ALL months does not identify or establish the 7th day weekly Sabbath. Now, as I have convincingly proven before that the Passover (14th day of the 1st month) WAS the 7th day weekly Sabbath WHEN the Children of Israel FIRST entered into the Land of Canaan, and that PROOF destroys the belief in a Lunar Sabbath, then we really don't need to be wasting your time discussing these things. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 9, 2023 15:32:41 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: As an example the children of Israel observed the 14th day Passover and the 15th day in the first month and in the first year in Exodus 12 and 23 after leaving Egypt; and they also observed the same 14th day in the first month in the second year in Numbers 9:1,5, and it never changes either in the year of Christ either. Why does the 14th and 15th day always stays the same days and never changes in different years in the scriptures? Shalom Ron, sorry, I jumped the gun about the Passover of the SECOND month. So, just because EVERY year requires the Passover to be slaughtered on the 14th and eaten on the 15th (with ULB), this in no way validates a Lunar Sabbath. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Feb 9, 2023 15:47:16 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: You still avoided my question as to why.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 9, 2023 15:55:10 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: You still avoided my question as to why. Shalom Ron, well, that gets us back into what the Moon is a Spiritual Picture of and what each day of the month represents. Each day of the week represents 1000 years, and each day of the month represents a time frame also, so this is WHY the 14th and 15th days were selected. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Ron on Feb 9, 2023 16:06:02 GMT -5
Ken,Moses is calling the 15th day ABOVE the seventh day, as he does in Deuteronomy 5:12-15, and as John identifies for us that the 15th day after the 14th day Preparation is the feast of unleavened bread John 19:31, and as Luke in 23:54-56 identifies the 15th day as the weekly seventh day Sabbath. And the fact of the matter is that these texts of scriptures identifies the 15th day Sabbath as BOTH the first day of the FEAST of unleavened bread and the weekly seventh day Sabbath, it too is determined from the NEW MOON of the first lunar month, and in the same way as the 14th day Passover is determined also. Ken, the modern Roman calendar has 52 satyrdays during a year, then surely there would be many examples of it in the scriptures, but alas, there isn't a single ONE, and I know, because I tried finding them way back in 1978 and 1979, and that's WHY I know that ye or anyone else can't either. Shalom Eliyahu, no, Moses, nor John, nor Luke calls or identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. Absolutely not, you are in error for a multitude of reasons that have been given to you over and over and over again. Now, to be sure, the FIRST or even the SEVENTH days of the Feast of ULB could fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, and EVEN the Passover can fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, but the Scriptures you have used with John and Luke in NO WAY identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. It's ALL in your imagination. Now, Nehemia Gordon has access to libraries and ancient writings that YOU or I could never get access too. He has studied the Lunar Sabbath extensively, and he has MANY contentions with your logic of the Scriptures. He states that within Judaism, the sages and ancient scholars would write extensively concerning debates and contentions. His LOGIC is that IF a 7th day weekly Sabbath was changed FROM using the Moon as the correct method to determine those Sabbaths, and transitioned to using the 24 hour Day (determined by the Sun) in establishing 6 full working days, and then resting on the 7th day of the week, there would be at least ONE Jewish SOURCE within the multitudes of pages written to show it was even possible (and he says the 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia is not credible, and he has his valid reasons, and IT is not an ancient source). So again Eliyahu, you got me to discuss with you, that IF I happened to stop by, your NEW information you have that I have never seen before, would prove a Wednesday Crucifixion is wrong. I'm about getting tired of debunking the Lunar Sabbath, so why don't you present your NEW information that shows a Wednesday Crucifixion is not viable. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Again, please don't do all the "private" interpretations of Scriptures like you have done with the Lunar Sabbath. ImAHebrew: Encyclopedias had to be credible at that time or they would not have been allowed to be published. Then why does Nehemia Gordon not make it free to the public to read and examine his logic? Also, does Nehemia Gordon prove that Saturday is the Sabbath of the Bible? Because one thing that Eliyahu has proven on this subject is that Israel's ancient calendar used in the scriptures is determined by the moon; and it's certain that neither Moses nor Christ used the calendar of Rome the fourth ruling power prophesied by the prophet Daniel.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 9, 2023 18:00:01 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, no, Moses, nor John, nor Luke calls or identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. Absolutely not, you are in error for a multitude of reasons that have been given to you over and over and over again. Now, to be sure, the FIRST or even the SEVENTH days of the Feast of ULB could fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, and EVEN the Passover can fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, but the Scriptures you have used with John and Luke in NO WAY identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. It's ALL in your imagination. Now, Nehemia Gordon has access to libraries and ancient writings that YOU or I could never get access too. He has studied the Lunar Sabbath extensively, and he has MANY contentions with your logic of the Scriptures. He states that within Judaism, the sages and ancient scholars would write extensively concerning debates and contentions. His LOGIC is that IF a 7th day weekly Sabbath was changed FROM using the Moon as the correct method to determine those Sabbaths, and transitioned to using the 24 hour Day (determined by the Sun) in establishing 6 full working days, and then resting on the 7th day of the week, there would be at least ONE Jewish SOURCE within the multitudes of pages written to show it was even possible (and he says the 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia is not credible, and he has his valid reasons, and IT is not an ancient source). So again Eliyahu, you got me to discuss with you, that IF I happened to stop by, your NEW information you have that I have never seen before, would prove a Wednesday Crucifixion is wrong. I'm about getting tired of debunking the Lunar Sabbath, so why don't you present your NEW information that shows a Wednesday Crucifixion is not viable. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Again, please don't do all the "private" interpretations of Scriptures like you have done with the Lunar Sabbath. ImAHebrew: Encyclopedias had to be credible at that time or they would not have been allowed to be published. Then why does Nehemia Gordon not make it free to the public to read and examine his logic? Also, does Nehemia Gordon prove that Saturday is the Sabbath of the Bible? Because one thing that Eliyahu has proven on this subject is that Israel's ancient calendar used in the scriptures is determined by the moon; and it's certain that neither Moses nor Christ used the calendar of Rome the fourth ruling power prophesied by the prophet Daniel. Shalom Ron, Nehemia Gordon's complaint is that encyclopedias can put false information in them. Most modern day encyclopedias state the Sabbath is a weekly cyclical event every 7 days on Saturday. Do you accept what they promote? Now, here is an "ancient" writing from the Epistle of Barnabas, and he discusses the False and True Sabbath. Will you accept his testimony? No mention whatsoever by Barnabas concerning a Lunar Sabbath, just validating that the cycle of six days represent 6000 years. Why is that Ron? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by Ron on Feb 10, 2023 10:49:07 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Nothing in the article of (Barnabas?) above supports a Saturday Sabbath or a continuous weekly cycle either, even if it truly comes from the Barnabas of the new testament who knows for certain.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 10, 2023 13:52:17 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Nothing in the article of (Barnabas?) above supports a Saturday Sabbath or a continuous weekly cycle either, even if it truly comes from the Barnabas of the new testament who knows for certain. Ron, That's true, however, it is for certain that Yah's scriptural " week" is a lunar week, not a solar week. Want scriptural proof of this? David in 1 Chronicles 23 and 24 only set 24 courses of Temple services, and each Priest would serve twice. If you do the simple math here, you will know they were observing lunar weeks of years, and solar weeks of years will not fit because there are 365.4 days in a solar only week of years. 2x24=48. Now multiply 7x48=336 days, however, there are 354.4 days. Why only 336 days? Because in Ezekiel 46:1-5 the “new moon days” were, and are not counted as one of the “ six work days” nor a “seventh day Sabbath” either. When these 18 unaccounted for “new moon” days are added to 336, you will come to 354 days, because there were Temple services on these “new moon” days. This proves Ezekiel 46:1-5 to be correct, and this proves “solar weeks of years” were not being used, because "solar weeks of years" as is being used today IGNORE the "new moon day" and will not fit. There are no coincidences in the Scriptures. berit.us/true-peace-magazine/the-24-divisions-of-the-priests-that-prepared-the-way-for-the-coming-of-jesus-christ/This will also be set straight before the second coming of Yah Messiah as well, the phases of the moon are Yah's natural creation on a 7.3 day week cycle that determines 4 weeks per moon.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 10, 2023 14:17:32 GMT -5
Ken,Moses is calling the 15th day ABOVE the seventh day, as he does in Deuteronomy 5:12-15, and as John identifies for us that the 15th day after the 14th day Preparation is the feast of unleavened bread John 19:31, and as Luke in 23:54-56 identifies the 15th day as the weekly seventh day Sabbath. And the fact of the matter is that these texts of scriptures identifies the 15th day Sabbath as BOTH the first day of the FEAST of unleavened bread and the weekly seventh day Sabbath, it too is determined from the NEW MOON of the first lunar month, and in the same way as the 14th day Passover is determined also. Ken, the modern Roman calendar has 52 satyrdays during a year, then surely there would be many examples of it in the scriptures, but alas, there isn't a single ONE, and I know, because I tried finding them way back in 1978 and 1979, and that's WHY I know that ye or anyone else can't either. Shalom Eliyahu, no, Moses, nor John, nor Luke calls or identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath.; Absolutely not, you are in error for a multitude of reasons that have been given to you over and over and over again. Now, to be sure, the FIRST or even the SEVENTH days of the Feast of ULB could fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, and EVEN the Passover can fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, but the Scriptures you have used with John and Luke in NO WAY identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. It's ALL in your imagination. Now, Nehemia Gordon has access to libraries and ancient writings that YOU or I could never get access too. He has studied the Lunar Sabbath extensively, and he has MANY contentions with your logic of the Scriptures. He states that within Judaism, the sages and ancient scholars would write extensively concerning debates and contentions. His LOGIC is that IF a 7th day weekly Sabbath was changed FROM using the Moon as the correct method to determine those Sabbaths, and transitioned to using the 24 hour Day (determined by the Sun) in establishing 6 full working days, and then resting on the 7th day of the week, there would be at least ONE Jewish SOURCE within the multitudes of pages written to show it was even possible (and he says the 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia is not credible, and he has his valid reasons, and IT is not an ancient source). So again Eliyahu, you got me to discuss with you, that IF I happened to stop by, your NEW information you have that I have never seen before, would prove a Wednesday Crucifixion is wrong. I'm about getting tired of debunking the Lunar Sabbath, so why don't you present your NEW information that shows a Wednesday Crucifixion is not viable. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Again, please don't do all the "private" interpretations of Scriptures like you have done with the Lunar Sabbath. Ken, here below ye have told a bold face lie. Luke below writes.... "This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. And that day was the preparation(14th day), and the sabbath(15th day) drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath(15th) day according to the commandment.
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.Luke 23:54-56; Luke 24:1.
Luke 23:54-56 www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=23&v=54&t=KJV&sstr=0
Luke 24:1 www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=24&v=1&t=KJV
The number sequence of days in order is Preparation 14th Passover, 15th day feast and weekly Sabbath, and first day of the week 16th day.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 10, 2023 15:12:45 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Nothing in the article of (Barnabas?) above supports a Saturday Sabbath or a continuous weekly cycle either, even if it truly comes from the Barnabas of the new testament who knows for certain. Shalom Ron, I think the main point that should be taken concerning what the Epistle of Barnabas has to say about the Sabbath, is that it FOLLOWS the six days of the week at CREATION, and those six days are 6000 years. Lets say we don't know for certain who wrote this, but one thing is for certain, it was written WELL before any one thinks the Lunar Sabbath was replaced with the weekly Sabbath we have today. The writer of this epistle is extremely detailed into looking at the PHYSICAL commands of the Law and then explaining the true KNOWLEDGE along Spiritual lines, and for him to compare the six WORKING days of the CREATION week to 6000 years is a pretty good indication we should be looking at a solar week INSTEAD of a lunar week. Hope that helps. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 10, 2023 15:24:31 GMT -5
ImAHebrew: Nothing in the article of (Barnabas?) above supports a Saturday Sabbath or a continuous weekly cycle either, even if it truly comes from the Barnabas of the new testament who knows for certain. Ron, That's true, however, it is for certain that Yah's scriptural " week" is a lunar week, not a solar week. Want scriptural proof of this? David in 1 Chronicles 23 and 24 only set 24 courses of Temple services, and each Priest would serve twice. If you do the simple math here, you will know they were observing lunar weeks of years, and solar weeks of years will not fit because there are 365.4 days in a solar only week of years. 2x24=48. Now multiply 7x48=336 days, however, there are 354.4 days. Why only 336 days? Because in Ezekiel 46:1-5 the “new moon days” were, and are not counted as one of the “ six work days” nor a “seventh day Sabbath” either. When these 18 unaccounted for “new moon” days are added to 336, you will come to 354 days, because there were Temple services on these “new moon” days. This proves Ezekiel 46:1-5 to be correct, and this proves “solar weeks of years” were not being used, because "solar weeks of years" as is being used today IGNORE the "new moon day" and will not fit. There are no coincidences in the Scriptures. berit.us/true-peace-magazine/the-24-divisions-of-the-priests-that-prepared-the-way-for-the-coming-of-jesus-christ/This will also be set straight before the second coming of Yah Messiah as well, the phases of the moon are Yah's natural creation on a 7.3 day week cycle that determines 4 weeks per moon. Shalom Eliyahu, thank you for this as it moved me to investigate the 24 courses/divisions/in Hebrew-mishmarot, and low and behold, look at what I found: Yes Eliyahu, did you notice that it takes SIX years to complete the cycle before the FIRST course/Mishmarot comes back to begin a year? That sort of blows your math out of the water, doesn't it? And on the fragment of texts, which have names mentioned of people living BEFORE the common era (which would make this BACK when you claim they kept the Lunar Sabbath) you have the 2nd day of the month being a Sabbath, and how about that, on the twenty-fifth of the month is a Sabbath. Oh boy, it looks like you need to go back to the drawing board and ERASE everything you know about a Lunar Sabbath being kept back then.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 10, 2023 15:57:33 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, no, Moses, nor John, nor Luke calls or identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath.; Absolutely not, you are in error for a multitude of reasons that have been given to you over and over and over again. Now, to be sure, the FIRST or even the SEVENTH days of the Feast of ULB could fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, and EVEN the Passover can fall on a weekly 7th day Sabbath, but the Scriptures you have used with John and Luke in NO WAY identifies the 15th day of the month to be the weekly seventh day Sabbath. It's ALL in your imagination. Now, Nehemia Gordon has access to libraries and ancient writings that YOU or I could never get access too. He has studied the Lunar Sabbath extensively, and he has MANY contentions with your logic of the Scriptures. He states that within Judaism, the sages and ancient scholars would write extensively concerning debates and contentions. His LOGIC is that IF a 7th day weekly Sabbath was changed FROM using the Moon as the correct method to determine those Sabbaths, and transitioned to using the 24 hour Day (determined by the Sun) in establishing 6 full working days, and then resting on the 7th day of the week, there would be at least ONE Jewish SOURCE within the multitudes of pages written to show it was even possible (and he says the 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia is not credible, and he has his valid reasons, and IT is not an ancient source). So again Eliyahu, you got me to discuss with you, that IF I happened to stop by, your NEW information you have that I have never seen before, would prove a Wednesday Crucifixion is wrong. I'm about getting tired of debunking the Lunar Sabbath, so why don't you present your NEW information that shows a Wednesday Crucifixion is not viable. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. P.S. Again, please don't do all the "private" interpretations of Scriptures like you have done with the Lunar Sabbath. Ken, here below ye have told a bold face lie. Luke below writes.... "This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. And that day was the preparation(14th day), and the sabbath(15th day) drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath(15th) day according to the commandment.
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.Luke 23:54-56; Luke 24:1.
Luke 23:54-56 www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=23&v=54&t=KJV&sstr=0
Luke 24:1 www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=24&v=1&t=KJV
The number sequence of days in order is Preparation 14th Passover, 15th day feast and weekly Sabbath, and first day of the week 16th day.
Shalom Eliyahu, I do my best not to lie, especially a bold face lie. Let's examine the FACTS. First, the Sabbath that "drew on," was NOT the WEEKLY Sabbath, it was for sure, the High Day Sabbath, the 1st Day of ULB (this would have been Wednesday at sunset). After this High Day Sabbath was PAST/OVER/COMPLETED/FINISHED, the women on Friday go out to buy spices so that they could take the whole day building a fire, boiling oils, adding in the spices, letting it cool down, and then collect the burial ointments BEFORE the WEEKLY 7th day Sabbath began FRIDAY at sunset: (Mk 16:1) And when the sabbath was past ( the High Day Sabbath on Thursday), Mary Magdalene, and Mary the [mother] of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint Him. (They go out on FRIDAY to buy the sweet spices, the word "had" should not be there, it was "added" by the translators, and is not in the Vulgate Latin or any of the Oriental versions.)
Now Lukes account tells us some things you LEFT out. FIRST, the women who had FOLLOWED Yeshua from Galilee RETURNED...I wonder how long that took? So, after they returned to Galilee and BUY the Sweet spices on FRIDAY (After the High Day Sabbath), it takes them all day Friday to do what they had to do in preparing the burial ointments. So they run out of time to go out to the tomb and have to REST on the WEEKLY 7th day Sabbath in obedience to the commandment: Lk 23:55 - 23:56 (55) And the women also, which came with Him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how His body was laid. (56) And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. So, they are out at the tomb and saw Him buried, and even one account has them watching the stone being rolled over the tomb entrance, and you think that some how these women RETURNED to Galilee, prepared the burial ointments (which was an immense project back then), and did all that BEFORE they purchased the ingredients? So please, believe I am not lying to you, I'm just relating TRUTHFUL facts. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 10, 2023 16:04:40 GMT -5
Ron, That's true, however, it is for certain that Yah's scriptural " week" is a lunar week, not a solar week. Want scriptural proof of this? David in 1 Chronicles 23 and 24 only set 24 courses of Temple services, and each Priest would serve twice. If you do the simple math here, you will know they were observing lunar weeks of years, and solar weeks of years will not fit because there are 365.4 days in a solar only week of years. 2x24=48. Now multiply 7x48=336 days, however, there are 354.4 days. Why only 336 days? Because in Ezekiel 46:1-5 the “new moon days” were, and are not counted as one of the “ six work days” nor a “seventh day Sabbath” either. When these 18 unaccounted for “new moon” days are added to 336, you will come to 354 days, because there were Temple services on these “new moon” days. This proves Ezekiel 46:1-5 to be correct, and this proves “solar weeks of years” were not being used, because "solar weeks of years" as is being used today IGNORE the "new moon day" and will not fit. There are no coincidences in the Scriptures. berit.us/true-peace-magazine/the-24-divisions-of-the-priests-that-prepared-the-way-for-the-coming-of-jesus-christ/This will also be set straight before the second coming of Yah Messiah as well, the phases of the moon are Yah's natural creation on a 7.3 day week cycle that determines 4 weeks per moon. Shalom Eliyahu, thank you for this as it moved me to investigate the 24 courses/divisions/in Hebrew-mishmarot, and low and behold, look at what I found: Yes Eliyahu, did you notice that it takes SIX years to complete the cycle before the FIRST course/Mishmarot comes back to begin a year? That sort of blows your math out of the water, doesn't it? And on the fragment of texts, which have names mentioned of people living BEFORE the common era (which would make this BACK when you claim they kept the Lunar Sabbath) you have the 2nd day of the month being a Sabbath, and how about that, on the twenty-fifth of the month is a Sabbath. Oh boy, it looks like you need to go back to the drawing board and ERASE everythinog you know about a Lunar Sabbath being kept back then. No Ken, there were 24 courses and priest served twice, this proves that a solar year was not being observed but a lunar year, because Israel never observed a solar only calendar, their monthly calendar was lunar-isn't that why the MOON is used in the scriptures? Oh but I'm sure ye will deny that Israel used a lunar calendar the same as ye deny Luke identifies the 14th, 15th, and 16th days of the first month during the death and resurrection of Messiah huh? Or maybe the 3rd day in Luke 24:21 is really the 4th day too? Ken, Rome used the Julian Calendar with 10 months in the time of Yah Messiah they had an 8 day market week, please tell us why did Luke never mention a "sunday, monday, tuesday, wednesday, friday, satyrday in the 1st century? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-day_week
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Post by Ron on Feb 10, 2023 16:16:50 GMT -5
ImAhebrew: This is you adding your imagination into the texts; it doesn't tell us it was a Thursday or Friday in these texts, and nothing about a 'day' in between either.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 10, 2023 16:29:59 GMT -5
ImAhebrew: This is you adding your imagination into the texts; it doesn't tell us it was a Thursday or Friday in these texts, and nothing about a 'day' in between either. Shalom Ron, what is unimaginable is trying to imagine the Sabbath drawing on, the men hurrying to get Yeshua's dead body in the tomb before the Sabbath, the women OUT at the tomb watching as the stone is rolled into place, and then returning to Galilee, preparing the burial ointments (a very lengthy process back then), and then RESTING on the Sabbath, all BEFORE buying the spices that were needed. Yes, quite unimaginable, isn't it? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 10, 2023 16:39:48 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, thank you for this as it moved me to investigate the 24 courses/divisions/in Hebrew-mishmarot, and low and behold, look at what I found: Yes Eliyahu, did you notice that it takes SIX years to complete the cycle before the FIRST course/Mishmarot comes back to begin a year? That sort of blows your math out of the water, doesn't it? And on the fragment of texts, which have names mentioned of people living BEFORE the common era (which would make this BACK when you claim they kept the Lunar Sabbath) you have the 2nd day of the month being a Sabbath, and how about that, on the twenty-fifth of the month is a Sabbath. Oh boy, it looks like you need to go back to the drawing board and ERASE everythinog you know about a Lunar Sabbath being kept back then. No Ken, there were 24 courses and priest served twice, this proves that a solar year was not being observed but a lunar year, because Israel never observed a solar only calendar, their monthly calendar was lunar-isn't that why the MOON is used in the scriptures? Oh but I'm sure ye will deny that Israel used a lunar calendar the same as ye deny Luke identifies the 14th, 15th, and 16th days of the first month during the death and resurrection of Messiah huh? Or maybe the 3rd day in Luke 24:21 is really the 4th day too? Ken, Rome used the Julian Calendar with 10 months in the time of Yah Messiah they had an 8 day market week, please tell us why did Luke never mention a "sunday, monday, tuesday, wednesday, friday, satyrday in the 1st century? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-day_weekShalom Eliyahu, no, what I copied was information about the 24 courses that WELL precedes anything you have determined about the solar versus lunar weeks. You didn't follow that it takes six years for the 24 courses to get back having the 1st course start a year. Where did you come up with that ALL 24 courses have to complete FULLY in a year. Also, you didn't take into account that at ALL three of the ANNUAL Festivals, ALL of the 24 courses participated, so that in itself would destroy your math. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Quote from the Jewish Virtual Library: "On the three pilgrim festivals, all the 24 mishmarot officiated together (Suk. 5:7–8)"
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 10, 2023 17:20:02 GMT -5
No Ken, there were 24 courses and priest served twice, this proves that a solar year was not being observed but a lunar year, because Israel never observed a solar only calendar, their monthly calendar was lunar-isn't that why the MOON is used in the scriptures? Oh but I'm sure ye will deny that Israel used a lunar calendar the same as ye deny Luke identifies the 14th, 15th, and 16th days of the first month during the death and resurrection of Messiah huh? Or maybe the 3rd day in Luke 24:21 is really the 4th day too? Ken, Rome used the Julian Calendar with 10 months in the time of Yah Messiah they had an 8 day market week, please tell us why did Luke never mention a "sunday, monday, tuesday, wednesday, friday, satyrday in the 1st century? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-day_weekShalom Eliyahu, no, what I copied was information about the 24 courses that WELL precedes anything you have determined about the solar versus lunar weeks. You didn't follow that it takes six years for the 24 courses to get back having the 1st course start a year. Where did you come up with that ALL 24 courses have to complete FULLY in a year. Also, you didn't take into account that at ALL three of the ANNUAL Festivals, ALL of the 24 courses participated, so that in itself would destroy your math. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Quote from the Jewish Virtual Library: "On the three pilgrim festivals, all the 24 mishmarot officiated together (Suk. 5:7–8)" Ken, I think that ye don't understand this, and if ye think the Jews today followed the calendar that King David used in the scriptures ye are sorely mistaken, each priest would serve twice for seven days during a year. Now please tell me, if the seven day planetary week was being used in the first century why did at least Luke did not mentioned these "sunday, monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, satyrday?
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 10, 2023 17:23:49 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, please show me ONE verse where G71 has a translation as "is," other than in Luke 24:21: (Lk 24:21) But we trusted that it had been He which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is ( G71) the third day since these things were done. I suppose Eliyahu, the IS could be ONE of the 5 miscellaneous translations of this Greek word. The translators were opinionated just like you to believe that "to day IS the third day," instead of correctly translating it "to day leads the third day." Now, where was "to day" LEADING the third day? "To day" was LEADING the third day AWAY FROM when these things were done! Pretty simple when you are aware of the TRUTH, isn't it Eliyahu? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by ImAHebrew on Feb 10, 2023 17:28:11 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, no, what I copied was information about the 24 courses that WELL precedes anything you have determined about the solar versus lunar weeks. You didn't follow that it takes six years for the 24 courses to get back having the 1st course start a year. Where did you come up with that ALL 24 courses have to complete FULLY in a year. Also, you didn't take into account that at ALL three of the ANNUAL Festivals, ALL of the 24 courses participated, so that in itself would destroy your math. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Quote from the Jewish Virtual Library: "On the three pilgrim festivals, all the 24 mishmarot officiated together (Suk. 5:7–8)" Ken, I think that ye don't understand this, and if ye think the Jews today followed the calendar that King David used in the scriptures ye are sorely mistaken, each priest would serve twice for seven days during a year. Now please tell me, if the seven day planetary week was being used in the first century why did at least Luke did not mentioned these "sunday, monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, satyrday? Shalom Eliyahu, the fragments that were quoted from were very ancient, BEFORE the time of Messiah, so when they show Sabbaths falling on the 2nd and 25th day of the month, your LUNAR Sabbath is destroyed. Now you ask about Luke not using the pagan names of the week days, it's like he didn't use the pagan names of the months either. Why would he use pagan names for the week days or the months? You need to tell me that. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
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Post by Eliyahu C. on Feb 10, 2023 17:32:18 GMT -5
Shalom Eliyahu, please show me ONE verse where G71 has a translation as "is," other than in Luke 24:21: (Lk 24:21) But we trusted that it had been He which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is ( G71) the third day since these things were done. I suppose Eliyahu, the IS could be ONE of the 5 miscellaneous translations of this Greek word. The translators were opinionated just like you to believe that "to day IS the third day," instead of correctly translating it "to day leads the third day." Now, where was "to day" LEADING the third day? "To day" was LEADING the third day AWAY FROM when these things were done! Pretty simple when you are aware of the TRUTH, isn't it Eliyahu? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew. Please Ken, don't go through your laughable twisting of this text again to deny it says the third day so ye can say it is the fourth day, because it looks stupid on your part.
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